How come no one is talking about the IRS?

marc

Lifetime Supporter
Are we chicken? Email lost by Lerner and at least 20 IRS employees when their computers "crashed". No backups? Come on. I want answers or they don't get my taxes. And yes it can be done. I am talking with a tax attorney now. Having been in the IT world, the loss of data at the government level is total corruption. This is something I expect from a organization like a McDonald's franchise, not the government entity that collects 3-4 trillion a year from us fools. It doesn't matter if its because of conservatives being targeted, its about trust in our government to act with total honesty and UN-objectively to collect taxes. I can stand the once in a while hiccups but this is gone too far.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
If it didn't happen and you talk about it, the gullible folks will think it did happen. Great strategy if you have a gullible audience and facts/truth are not important.
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
If it didn't happen and you talk about it, the gullible folks will think it did happen. Great strategy if you have a gullible audience and facts/truth are not important.
You're saying the IRS thing is a "phoney scandal" are you? If so, "hark back" (Johnny Carson) to when Obama himself said otherwise (fwd the vid to 1:06...'runs to 1:40):

Obama calls IRS flap 'inexcusable,' announces resignation of acting IRS chief - U.S. News

...and then, very shortly thereafter, his Admin started all the stone walling and Obama started referring to the IRS scandal (and the others) as being "phoney".

And YOU talk about "facts/truth" and people being "gullible"???! :stunned:

Please...
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Lindsey Graham: 'No Evidence' White House Directed IRS To Target Conservatives

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Monday became the latest Republican to reject Darrell Issa's comments.

But Graham went further than his Republican colleagues, saying there's no evidence that the White House ordered the tax agency to target conservative groups.

During an interview with "Kilmeade and Friends" on Fox News Radio, Graham said Issa, a California Republican, was a key player in investigating the matter as the chairman of the House Oversight Committee. But, he conceded, "you can go too far" with personal allegations.

**************

So Lindsey Graham goes on FOX and says there is no evidence that White House use the IRS to target anyone.

So Marc, Al, Larry, are you calling Republican Senator Lindsey Graham a lier?
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 70, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
You're spinning, ducking, dodging, deflecting and redirecting again, Jim.
...and you use such claims on a regular basis to avoid answering reasonable questions, Larry...did it to me once when I asked a sincere question...you had made a comment once that led me to believe you are an M.D. and then made another statement that contradicted that, so I asked. I had no reason other than a desire to be accurate in the comments I post, but you accused me of attempting to divert attention from the issue being discussed.

It's not paranoia if they REALLY ARE out to get you, Larry...if I made you feel that I was out to get you, I apologize, I was just curious and wanted to be more accurate in the future.

Let's see if you duck the issue again in a similar manner...

Doug
 
Lindsey Graham: 'No Evidence' White House Directed IRS To Target Conservatives

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Monday became the latest Republican to reject Darrell Issa's comments.

But Graham went further than his Republican colleagues, saying there's no evidence that the White House ordered the tax agency to target conservative groups.

During an interview with "Kilmeade and Friends" on Fox News Radio, Graham said Issa, a California Republican, was a key player in investigating the matter as the chairman of the House Oversight Committee. But, he conceded, "you can go too far" with personal allegations.

**************

So Lindsey Graham goes on FOX and says there is no evidence that White House use the IRS to target anyone.

So Marc, Al, Larry, are you calling Republican Senator Lindsey Graham a lier?

Alleged and hearsay come to mind . No leaked documents , internal memo`s or witness statements to back up any of these claims may well be the reason no one is talking about it. Mind you if you keep throwing shit at the fan eventually some of it will stick.

Bob
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
What happened?
Pete, here's the two minute, hope to be objective, summary.

1. In the wake of President Obama's election, a lot of groups organized as what are called 501c organizations here in the US. These are non-profits that (a) don't pay taxes adn (b) to whom donations are deductible off of the donators taxes.

2. One of the tests these organizations have to pass is to show they are not organized for a political purpose.

3. Well, guess what. The flood of organizations applying for 501c status after 2008, mostly "Tea Party" groups, were in fact political.

4. One IRS office in Ohio developed a set of code words and other search criteria to help sift through the avalanche of applciations to help determine which ones were to get more scrutiny. Basically, if you put "Tea Party" or "America First" or "Constitutionalist!" or "Lonesome Nutjob" in your application, your application would get flagged for screening.

5. While this process caught some left wing groups seeking 501c status, it (primarily because more of them applied) caught more right wing groups.

6. It was wrong, and a form of profiing that is not allowed in the US.

7. At the end of the day though,as a percentage, more "conservative" groups were approved for 501(c) status than "liberal."

8. This process ws aparently devised at the request of a Democratic congressman who was -- rightfully -- concerned that political groups were going to misuse the 501(c) process to operate (improperly) as tax free exempt organizations.

9. THere is zero evidence anyone at the White House knew about it, or ordered it, or directed it, or anything.

10. What has Larry and Bob and others visibly erect at this "scandal," is that in conjunction with the investigation, Lois Lerner -- the top IRS official responsible -- had her hard drive crash and some of her emails were lost. Not all. Many were recovered from the "in boxes" of people she sent emails to. A few other low level IRS folks also lost data. HOwever, HUGE volumes of data were recovered.

11. For the most part, most Republican members of Congress do not believe there was any wrongdoing and want to move on. See quote from Senator Lyndsey Graham above.

12. However, our right wing attack media and one or two members of Congress -- Dan Issa in particular -- won't let this go, much like they won't let BENGAHZI! go even after teh House investigation that put to rest most of the crazy theories you see/read/hear about here.

13. Was what the IRS did wrong? Yes. Was losing emails suspicious? Yes. Does anyone have evidence of anything other than a Cleveland, Ohio office of the IRS coming up with an improper shortcut procedure to find political action groups improperly seeking 501(c) status? No.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 70, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Thanks Larry now I understand what happened.
Perhaps, Pete....but perhaps not.

Keep in mind Larry is one of the most radical right-wingers on the forum, so his perception will be skewed to the right. What he says may or may not be accurate, so before you just accept the word of a radical right-winger, perhaps a bit more information might shed a different light on it...i.e.the information provided by Jeff, who is admittedly on the left, but who IMHO has presented much more rational/less emotional information on most issues than Larry (who is entitled to be as adamant about his perceptions as is everyone else...and vice-versa).

After all, we ALL see things as we want to see them at times, perhaps Larry.....:idea:

...I'm just sayin'...

Cheers!

Doug
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 70, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
IMHO, the IRS should be disbanded and we should develop a much more fair method of determining taxation. Has nothing to do with the "alleged" violations under discussion here.

That's it.

Doug
 

Steve

Supporter
The IRS has frequently been used as a tool (and "tool" can be interpreted in many ways here) for the party in power to punish enemies and reward friends. In other words, the recent IRS scandal is BAU. I'm amazed our country managed for 150+ years with no income tax and now it's a drug the federal govt needs more than meth.

As time goes on, I'm convinced that a two-tiered flat tax with no deductions or exceptions is the best policy. All must pay into the system as all benefit.
 

marc

Lifetime Supporter
Forget the political bs for a second, many of you are technology savvy and from that aspect, how can you trust a government entity that controls trillions (a record income this year) that has such a faulty method of internal documentation. The fact that the computers and emails from corporate entities would be investigated by FBI forensics guided by the DOJ to throw taxpayers in jail in a heartbeat. Corporate America must store all emails for the same amount of time as the tax and other corporate records. Some companies go much further. And yet the government just says "whoops" 20 questionable computers and emails inclusive of their accounts are missing? They where physically destroyed without question and the information is lost.
Come on, its not about Tea Party or conservatives, its about the people in control of our government are above the law, flaunting it just as Lerner did as she violated her use of the 5th amendment right, by telling congress where to go with a speech, which in effect waived the amendment.
We live by laws, that is the method of organization and definitions of right and wrong, and the IRS feels that they are above the law.
Why do we bring this up? Because our government, our President, believes that the laws they conceive do not apply to them. This is similar to the scandals of Nixon and Clinton. You do remember that they all took an oath of office that included the words "defend the constitution" Congress and Senate also take those oaths.

So the actions of small groups of conservative people have been unable to gain a 501c non profit organization that where not lobbying nor campaigning for any candidate are under pressure to get a 501c because Tea Party is in the title? Guilty before even allowing those to file or mysteriously lose the paperwork because these grass roots organizations may upset their apple cart? The fact that they should be able to get such a status with out the encumbrances the IRS went to such as requiring lists of donors or members so that they can be audited as well it so anti American and stinks of socialism/fascism is wrong. The IRS cannot stop the creation of a 501c if the organization meets the rules governing non profits. If they (non profit) then breaks the law, there are already fines and revokation of the non profit status.
This is where the legal system should step in as you cannot profile an organization just as we cannot be guilty until proven guilty.

And bringing to bear the 15000 additional agents the government hired to collect taxes and "deadbeats" that are tax dodging.

If a group that is listed as a Tea Party is not following the rules of a 501c then they should be fined and made taxable. But there should not be a rule in place that says no from the get go.

My local TP group has had the same difficult time putting in place the 501c3 just because Tea Party is part of the name. We don't lobby for specific candidates, we don't campaign for them either. The group is solely based on issues that face us as a community and what are government is doing for or not doing for those issues. As a candidate for the local city race they can just endorse a candidate, which is legal. What its members do, l can say they are done individually and not mandated by the group. So how can the non profit be considered anything else?
 

Steve

Supporter
Marc you're right. The IRS scandal is simply an example of govt corruption run amok. Too much centralized power and autonomy breeds corruption and bias. The result is loss of individual liberties. Our media would rather have Adrian Peterson's child abuse as the lead story however.
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Jeff, Doug and Marc thank you for your explanations along with Larry. I now get the picture.
I didn't see any reports of this in Oz hence my question.
 
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