Wow. That's quite a few attacks. While striking back is an attractive option, how's about I just go ahead and clarify my position just a bit. I thought I had done so, but apparently that's not the case.
I said that I would never call Robert Logan arrogant because he wouldn't sell his book, nor would I want to drag out an argument about it. I also said that I firmly believe that no kit car purchase should ever be made without having all of the information available. Mr. Logan has a different view on dissemination of materials than I do. He has his opinion, I have mine.
I also said "...That sounds
exactly like the patented
"you'll forget about all of the build problems and the missing parts and the back orders as soon as you finish the car" response you get from a certain group of Cobra/Roadster builders, and it's not acceptable, nor should it ever be acceptable..."
Which is absolutely true.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark Worthington:
You know, for a guy who's in the vaporware business, your not doing much to give yourself a good reputation within the GT40 community with posts like that. Your statement, which implies that Roaring Forties engages in deceptive business practices, was ignorant and in incredibly bad taste, if not outright slander. Maybe someday you will have your own support forum on this site and as many satisfied customers as Robert Logan and Gordon Levy, but until then you are a vaperware-hawking wannabe that is making an ass out of himself.
You have managed to single-handedly lower the standards of civility of this excellent forum. I would ask you to think before you post in the future. I would also recommend you change your user name to your real name, as some people may be reluctant to buy a GT40 kit from from someone who calls himself "Meat." Finally, if you are going to continue to post garbage, please drop the American flag icon; the only time in my life I've been embarrassed by it is when it shows up beneath one of your posts on this forum.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To start with, I believe that the definition of vaporware is any announced computer software or hardware technology that never makes it to market. As all of my software and hardware products are currently
on the market (and doing pretty well, with a fairly broad customer base who all seem to like them...and have liked them for the last eight years or so), I'm a bit confused by your remark. I have no vaporware, and the only software or hardware that I produce that is marketed to the automotive niche is for a retail dealership. Retail dealerships generally don't carry GT40s, so my reputation is not applicable.
Further, I never said nor implied that Roaring Forties engages in deceptive business practices. Nor would I. In your post, you said "... Your statement, which implies that Roaring Forties engages in deceptive business practices, was ignorant and in incredibly bad taste, if not outright slander.." is very,
very, very incorrect. It's pretty durned close to defamation, and is probably libelous. In fact, your entire post could be taken as defamation. If you, in the future for whatever reason, decide to attack me like that again, please understand the difference between libel and slander. Libel is written, slander is verbal. You accused me of slander, which is - I believe - based on transitory verbal communication (I've never spoken to you to my knowledge), and it is not nearly as permanent as libel, which has a greater potential for damage (which means lawyers...and what did you
write about me again?).
I am truly sorry that you misunderstood what I wrote. I did not say what you seem to want to believe that I said. You can feel free to continue to attack me at will, but if you do so, please email your comments to me, so that the forum doesn't have to be littered with your ... garbage.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hershal Byrd:
"...Sean, you can forget about the back order problems and such from FFR. Robert does not ship incomplete kits. You get what you order or it doesn't leave the shop. He has to get it right because postage over their isn't cheap and if he forgets the parts they would have to be sent out on his dime.
He has forgotten a few times and he has shipped the parts the very next day.
So to make that comparison is really unfair..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I never said that RF has backorder problems. I said that the
statement (made by Jay Thompson -
not RF) sounded like a knee-jerk, brown-shirt response. And it did sound like that, and I stand by my comments. However, I don't believe that the FR ships 'complete,' otherwise there wouldn't be any additional airmailed packages. I do believe that any missing parts are human error, not stocking errors, from what I've read. No kit - complete or otherwise - will probably ever ship ... complete. And I say that as someone who's planning on shipping a complete kit...
What people need to see here - LtMash1A - is that I posted that I have a different philosophy about presentation of materials than Robert Logan does. That doesn't mean I'm right, nor does it mean that Robert Logan is right. It means that we see things in differing ways...and his toilet water swirls a different way than mine does.
Beyond that, it seems that we both like GT40s enough to want to produce them, we both seem to feel the same about customer service, and wanting to produce something that is of excellent quality, and is
buildable.
The good thing about the odd little 'beat your meat' twist this thread seems to have taken is that everyone who is building an RF is saying the same thing; the kit is pretty much complete, the manual is excellent, and customer support is a phone call away. That's what you want in a kit car, regardless of whether it's a GT40, a Cobra, a Ferrari or whatever. I would hope that a year from now people would say the same thing about the M40.
People shouldn't 'gloss over' any of the shortcomings of any kit car. If the manufacturer is competent, internet connected and willing to take a hit or two to their ego, the very best thing that they could do would be to read every single word that is written about their car - good or bad - and see if it's something that needs to be addressed. You should never
EVER believe someone who would dismiss (or edit, in the case of a certain forum) a major failing (like bumpsteer, body issues, wheel hop, aluminum tie-rod ends, etc.) of a kit with a comment like "well, once you turn the key you'll forget about all the problems." That's not meant as a slam on Jay Thompson's post (which I commented on earlier to distill the issue), it's just something that I firmly believe, and have always believed.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jay Thompson:
"...Meat, I am in the process of building my car - and yes there have been missing items and need for support, BUT I call, ask for help and get it. As to missing parts - they are air mailed and I recieve them within a few days. Yes I would have been happier if they were not missing but stuff happens. The important thinng is how the problem is handled..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
See? That illustrates what I said above.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Morton:
Meat,
You are deluded. Your postings are becoming ever so slightly manic. Now, very few people even read what you write and most just hit the down button. Please don't devalue this forum with your evaluation of a justice system that is generally the mockery of the free world. If you wish to retain any credibility with your cars, try and stick to the points being raised.
Bored of England.
Dave M<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, the points
were raised. And you are wasting forum space attacking me. I'm hardly deluded...however, it should be noted that if your diagnosis is based on not reading what I write, then it would seem that the delusional one would be you. Also, I'm pretty sure that manic means 'excited or anxious in a way that causes one to be very physically active.' Since I haven't had any coffee or Mountain Dew yet, I think that a better diagnosis would be that I'm 'static.'
If you're bored, please find something better to do with your time. Or at least get a better grasp of the language so that your attacks could be more effective. If so few people read what I write, how come so many people responded? Better verbiage, better fact checking. That would be my recommendation to fill your time.
...but thanks for responding.
Your pal,
Meat.
[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: meat ]
