More Global Cooling/Warming/Change hoax.

Its funny how numbers and statistics differ so much depending on your political persuasion and therefore, requires extra scrutiny. If you don't think so, your most likely so dyed-in-the-wool you will believe anything that supports your agenda.

Just a few years ago, I was hearing that wind farms were not worth the investment. Now I'm hearing that they can rival traditional power sources? What can I believe?

A good test is what Mark alluded to – Does it need subsidies to compete? If so, it’s probably not so good.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Don't forget Larry, that Wind can plug the gaps in generation and prop up the system during peak time! Well according to some! :laugh:

The only place where a wind farm MIGHT prove to be economically feasible here in the U.S. would be if it were set up outside the doors of congress where it could enjoy a constant high volume flow of never ending hot air. (Well, aside from the times when congress is on one of its many vacations, that is.)
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Its funny how numbers and statistics differ so much depending on your political persuasion and therefore, requires extra scrutiny. If you don't think so, your most likely so dyed-in-the-wool you will believe anything that supports your agenda.

Just a few years ago, I was hearing that wind farms were not worth the investment. Now I'm hearing that they can rival traditional power sources? What can I believe?

A good test is what Mark alluded to – Does it need subsidies to compete? If so, it’s probably not so good.

Here's a test that I use to sort out the Larrys I mean windbags (no pun intended) of the world and those who actually know something about windpower.

In the US, what exactly are the piles and piles of government money given to wind farms?

Answer without using the Googles! If you know what it is, then you can generally have an intelligent discussion with folks about wind power.

Hint: It's far less than the subisidies oil and gas and coal have received in the US over the last 100 years, and wind farms would definitely be (and were) built without it.
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
I have to deal with wind farm issues on a daily basis, their tax credit impacts on other economically dispatched fossil-fueled resources, and the curtailments of those resources due to the lack of transmission. Looking at data and documents for wind turbine installed costs, it tells me that in 15-20 years out, the finances flip to where the investment is a benefit rather than a burden on the end user/taxpayer. In essence, not much different than other energy industry infrastructure investments.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Here's a test that I use to sort out the Larrys I mean windbags (no pun intended) of the world and those who actually know something about windpower.

In the US, what exactly are the piles and piles of government money given to wind farms?

Answer without using the Googles! If you know what it is, then you can generally have an intelligent discussion with folks about wind power.

Hint: It's far less than the subisidies oil and gas and coal have received in the US over the last 100 years, and wind farms would definitely be (and were) built without it.

I will listen to - and believe - Mr. Pickens FIRST HAND, HANDS ON EXPERIENCE with wind farms and their economic viablility looooooooong before I will consider/pay attention to your spin on the issue, sir.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
I have to deal with wind farm issues on a daily basis, their tax credit impacts on other economically dispatched fossil-fueled resources, and the curtailments of those resources due to the lack of transmission. Looking at data and documents for wind turbine installed costs, it tells me that in 15-20 years out, the finances flip to where the investment is a benefit rather than a burden on the end user/taxpayer. In essence, not much different than other energy industry infrastructure investments.

Bingo! The only subsidy for wind is a tax credit that is only issued once the farm is operational, and that money is recovered in a 10-20 year time frame via increased tax revenues from the farm/workers/etc.

Larry, I've been working in the wind industry since 2000, longer than Mr. Pickens (who abandoned wind because the infrastructure to make a quick buck is there to support natural gas, and not wind).

The issue if far more complicated than what one Texas oil man thinks about it. Shame you are as close minded as you are, but ain't nothing gonna change that I think.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Bingo! The only subsidy for wind is a tax credit that is only issued once the farm is operational, and that money is recovered in a 10-20 year time frame via increased tax revenues from the farm/workers/etc.

Larry, I've been working in the wind industry since 2000, longer than Mr. Pickens (who abandoned wind because the infrastructure to make a quick buck is there to support natural gas, and not wind).

The issue if far more complicated than what one Texas oil man thinks about it. Shame you are as close minded as you are, but ain't nothing gonna change that I think.

...just as the real world experience of savvy investors evidently won't change yours, sir.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Note: the "real world experience of savvy investors" (i.e. Bernie Madoff, Enron, others) doesn't always equal "what's best for society as a whole." In this case, the power grid.

Your position is that because a Texas oil man can make more money off of natural gas in Texas and Oklahoma than wind, wind is crap.

Uh, yeah.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Note: the "real world experience of savvy investors" (i.e. Bernie Madoff, Enron, others) doesn't always equal "what's best for society as a whole." In this case, the power grid.

Your position is that because a Texas oil man can make more money off of natural gas in Texas and Oklahoma than wind, wind is crap.

Uh, yeah.

My position is what I SAID it is...not what you're trying to spin it into.

Nice try, but I doubt anyone's buying it...
 
I'm not so sure that any real businessman would abandon anything that would make them money, even if they are an oil man. If there's money to be made in wind power, I'm sure someone would be working on it... Hopefully that doesn't mean funneling tax supported subsidies directly to their wallets without really developing a product.

If the cost, efficiency and dependability of wind power were on par with other traditional energy sources for, say, a 25 year period; I would be completely for it.
 
I remember when Pickens started campaigning for wind power. I thought what are you smoking. Well, obviously, he listened to all his advisers who went through the government school brain wash, and I'm sure he's paid dearly for his little folly with "renewables."
 
Slim Pickens 1919-1983 (brain cancer)
Birth Name

Louis Burton Lindley Jr.


Height

6' 2" (1.88 m)


Mini Biography

Slim Pickens spent the early part of his career as a real cowboy and the latter part playing cowboys, and he is best remembered for a single "cowboy" image: that of bomber pilot Maj. "King" Kong waving his cowboy hat rodeo-style as he rides a nuclear bomb onto its target in the great black comedy Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964). Born in Kingsburg, near Fresno in California's Central Valley, he spent much of his boyhood in nearby Hanford, where he began rodeoing at the age of 12. Over the next two decades he toured the country on the rodeo circuit, becoming a highly-paid and well-respected rodeo clown, a job that entailed enormous danger. At the age of 31 he was given a role in a western, Rocky Mountain (1950), and quickly found a niche in both comic and villainous roles in that genre. With his hoarse voice and pronounced western twang, he was not always easy to cast outside the genre, but when he was, as in "Dr. Strangelove", the results were often memorable. He died in 1983 after a long and courageous battle against a brain tumor. He was survived by his wife Margaret and three children, Daryle Ann, Thom, and Margaret Lou. His brother has acted under the name Easy Pickens.
Dedicatee of Howard Waldrop's story "Night of the Cooters," whose protagonist is Sheriff Bert Lindley.
Well, there was this big, lanky, fourteen-year-old California ranch kid, and he went into the rodeo manager's office and said, "Mister, I want to sign up for the calf-roping but my paw says I ain't allowed to. So I can't use my right name." And the manager said, "Son, no matter what name you use, it'll be slim pickin's out there today." So the boy said, "That's as good a name as any, I reckon-put me down as Slim Pickin's." The manager spelled it "Pickens," and the boy won $400 that afternoon. (As told to Ed Zern)
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Slim Pickens 1919-1983 (brain cancer)
Birth Name

Louis Burton Lindley Jr.


Height

6' 2" (1.88 m)


Mini Biography

Slim Pickens spent the early part of his career as a real cowboy and the latter part playing cowboys, and he is best remembered for a single "cowboy" image: that of bomber pilot Maj. "King" Kong waving his cowboy hat rodeo-style as he rides a nuclear bomb onto its target in the great black comedy Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964). Born in Kingsburg, near Fresno in California's Central Valley, he spent much of his boyhood in nearby Hanford, where he began rodeoing at the age of 12. Over the next two decades he toured the country on the rodeo circuit, becoming a highly-paid and well-respected rodeo clown, a job that entailed enormous danger. At the age of 31 he was given a role in a western, Rocky Mountain (1950), and quickly found a niche in both comic and villainous roles in that genre. With his hoarse voice and pronounced western twang, he was not always easy to cast outside the genre, but when he was, as in "Dr. Strangelove", the results were often memorable. He died in 1983 after a long and courageous battle against a brain tumor. He was survived by his wife Margaret and three children, Daryle Ann, Thom, and Margaret Lou. His brother has acted under the name Easy Pickens.
Dedicatee of Howard Waldrop's story "Night of the Cooters," whose protagonist is Sheriff Bert Lindley.
Well, there was this big, lanky, fourteen-year-old California ranch kid, and he went into the rodeo manager's office and said, "Mister, I want to sign up for the calf-roping but my paw says I ain't allowed to. So I can't use my right name." And the manager said, "Son, no matter what name you use, it'll be slim pickin's out there today." So the boy said, "That's as good a name as any, I reckon-put me down as Slim Pickin's." The manager spelled it "Pickens," and the boy won $400 that afternoon. (As told to Ed Zern)



...I see you must have doubted me!
 
Back
Top