Science vs Beliefs

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
I don't normally initiate posts in the Paddock, but the following was so intriguing, considering it mirrors my experience in regards to science vs beliefs. I hope you find it as interesting. One reason I place a higher regard for this editorial is because this publication (Scientific American) is the only science magazine that I feel worth the money and reading-time spent in a non-stop subscription since 1976:

Ever since college I have been a libertarian—socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I believe in individual liberty and personal responsibility. I also believe in science as the greatest instrument ever devised for understanding the world. So what happens when these two principles are in conflict? My libertarian beliefs have not always served me well. Like most people who hold strong ideological convictions, I find that, too often, my beliefs trump the scientific facts. This is called motivated reasoning, in which our brain reasons our way to supporting what we want to be true. Knowing about the existence of motivated reasoning, however, can help us overcome it when it is at odds with evidence.
Take gun control. I always accepted the libertarian position of minimum regulation in the sale and use of firearms because I placed guns under the beneficial rubric of minimal restrictions on individuals. Then I read the science on guns and homicides, suicides and accidental shootings and realized that the freedom for me to swing my arms ends at your nose. The libertarian belief in the rule of law and a potent police and military to protect our rights won't work if the citizens of a nation are better armed but have no training and few restraints. Although the data to convince me that we need some gun-control measures were there all along, I had ignored them because they didn't fit my creed. In several recent debates with economist John R. Lott, Jr., author of More Guns, Less Crime, I saw a reflection of my former self in the cherry picking and data mining of studies to suit ideological convictions. We all do it, and when the science is complicated, the confirmation bias (a type of motivated reasoning) that directs the mind to seek and find confirming facts and ignore disconfirming evidence kicks in.
My libertarianism also once clouded my analysis of climate change. I was a longtime skeptic, mainly because it seemed to me that liberals were exaggerating the case for global warming as a kind of secular millenarianism—an environmental apocalypse requiring drastic government action to save us from doomsday through countless regulations that would handcuff the economy and restrain capitalism, which I hold to be the greatest enemy of poverty. Then I went to the primary scientific literature on climate and discovered that there is convergent evidence from multiple lines of inquiry that global warming is real and human-caused: temperatures increasing, glaciers melting, Arctic ice vanishing, Antarctic ice cap shrinking, sea-level rise corresponding with the amount of melting ice and thermal expansion, carbon dioxide touching the level of 400 parts per million (the highest in at least 800,000 years and the fastest increase ever), and the confirmed prediction that if anthropogenic global warming is real the stratosphere and upper troposphere should cool while the lower troposphere should warm, which is the case.
The clash between scientific facts and ideologies was on display at the 2013 FreedomFest conference in Las Vegas—the largest gathering of libertarians in the world—where I participated in two debates, one on gun control and the other on climate change. I love FreedomFest because it supercharges my belief engine. But this year I was so discouraged by the rampant denial of science that I wanted to turn in my libertarian membership card. At the gun-control debate (as in my debates with Lott around the country), proposing even modest measures that would have almost no effect on freedom—such as background checks—brought on opprobrium as if I had burned a copy of the U.S. Constitution on stage. In the climate debate, when I showed that between 90 and 98 percent of climate scientists accept anthropogenic global warming, someone shouted, “LIAR!” and stormed out of the room.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
...and yet it seems that every 10 minutes we find out something like this:

Climategate II: Scientists pushed to hide data | Fox News

Global cooling: Arctic ice caps grows by 60% against global warming predictions | Mail Online

Terrifying Flat Global Temperature Crisis Threatens To Disrupt U.N. Climate Conference Agenda - Forbes

...where upon the "warmers" will then always dust off and push forward some obscure, vague statistical "facts" they claim invalidates such things.

And they're ALL still ducking debates with Lord Monckton like the plague...



"...where I participated in two debates, one on gun control..."

I'm afraid to ask! :D
 
So, Terry, where do you stand? Are you finally agreeing that the climate change people are sticking to their ideologies even after Climategate I and II, and of course the now well known fact that there has been no warming in the last fifteen years?

If so, I'm very proud of you!

As far as gun control goes, Maybe things like the flagrant invasion of our privacy by a government out of control has made you consider why the right to bear arms is the second amendment the founders deemed necessary to put into effect?

Remember, the constitution was written to protect the citizens from their government.
 
Terry,

I truly appreciate the post that you made, the sincerely of your introspection and stimulus for debate. In the four decades of scientific research and medical practice I should remind the readers of the editorial that the journal is not a peer reviewed publication, subject to the scrutiny of scientists in the field in question. The points raised may indeed be valid but are not proven by scientific method. Just a caveat, not a condemnation.
 
Arctic ice is floating on sea water, it displaces as much water as ice as it does as water, there would be no rise in sea level. If land based ice melts the sea level would rise. Polar bears can swim. :)
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Its kind of funny, a few years ago Pete, Mr Fechter and other were saying that there was absolutly no global warming, they said the glaciers were not melting, the ice cap was not melting, they said it was all just made up.......

They insisted that there was no global warming and that all the data and all the photos were faked.

Now they are saying well OK the Ice cap is melting, but so what, Polar Bears can swim.
 
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Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Its kind of funny, a few years ago Pete, Mr Fechter and other were saying that there was absolutly no global warming, they said the glaciers were not melting, the ice cap was not melting...

It's kinda funny...in the mid 1970s all the scientific 'experts' were telling us we were entering another ICE AGE...
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
Arctic ice is floating on sea water, it displaces as much water as ice as it does as water, there would be no rise in sea level.

Which one can demonstrate that basic principle for himself the next time he has a glass of ice water. Fill that puppy to the BRIM with ice and water...let all the ice melt. Once all the ice melts, the water level will have GONE DOWN in the glass.
 
Polar bears. Really. That's all they have anymore. There are plenty polar bears, and did you know they kill those cute seals? They will also kill humans! Should we allow this?
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Mr Fechter,

Are you still insisting that there is no "global warming"? Are you still saying the glaciers and ice cap are not melting, that the photos are all faked?
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Al, that was a question, not an attack.

It was a question in a discussion about "Science vs Beliefs".

I know that you, Pete and Mr Fechter BELIEVED there is no "Global Warming", but SCIENCE tells a different story.

Al, yes or no, are the glaciers and ice caps melting?
 
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At this place in time there is melting. Over the millions of years there has been melting and freezing, a natural occurrence. It will freeze and melt again long after man is gone.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
At this place in time there is melting. Over the millions of years there has been melting and freezing, a natural occurrence. It will freeze and melt again long after man is gone.


Egg-zackly.

And the last time an Ice Age ended, man wasn't here. 'No industry, no SUVs - no nuthun. Sooooo, how did the earth warm up all on it's lonesome? Oh, yeah, I know...warming is supposedly happening FASTER now. ('Wish I could find the article on greater 'sun energy' activity 'back-then-vs.-now', so to speak.)
 
Its kind of funny, a few years ago Pete, Mr Fechter and other were saying that there was absolutly no global warming, they said the glaciers were not melting, the ice cap was not melting, they said it was all just made up.......

They insisted that there was no global warming and that all the data and all the photos were faked.

Now they are saying well OK the Ice cap is melting, but so what, Polar Bears can swim.

It is not that people like me say the ice doesn't melt Jim, it is that we say Man doesn't cause it and the Island nations around the globe will not disappear because the ice caps melt.

Fact Jim. THEY RE FREEZE!

We do not say that there is no climate change. In fact we say, it ALWAYS and CONSTANTLY changes.

You guys film an iceberg breaking up and proclaim Man did it! Danger, we are all in peril!

We do not film a forest fire and state that it proves that the world is on fire!
 
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