My Fueling plans for the DynaTek Injection system
- Thread starter Allen English
- Start date
Good point Randy.
The Dura-lift pumps are real noisy too. I don't know what I was thinking getting the Dura-lift pumps. I will ad two new fuel pumps to the list.
The Dura-lift pumps are real noisy too. I don't know what I was thinking getting the Dura-lift pumps. I will ad two new fuel pumps to the list.
Actually I do know why I bought the lift pumps. I didn't know what psi the Dynatek needed and the lift pump I thought was for injection at the time I purchased them.
Actually the Duralift pumps are a lot more quiet than the original Stewart Warner SW240A pumps that the GT40s were generally built with. Those are the pumps that I will be putting in my car now.
If you want a more quiet pump, them look into Holley Gearotor pumps or use some rubber isolation mounts for the Duralifts.
Alan, I agree with Ian, in my opinion you are considerably undersized on pumps. Also you must consider air replacement to the fuel used, are you venting the main tanks ? I would not recommend return fuel from the regulator to the swirl pot, take it back to the main tanks for cooling. Frank
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Frank
I disagree with you on return - it must be to the swirl pot or under braking when the LP pumps are sucking ait the HP pump which is normally a much higher volume too will empty the swirl in seconds
Sure the engine is not burning a lot of fuel under braking but the pump will still pump at max volume
I look at it as 2 separate systems
1) Low Pressure
Tank to filter to changeover valve to pump to swirl
Return from the swirl through changeover valve to tank from where fuel was drawn
2) High Pressure
Swirl to HP pump Filter fuel rail Return to swirl
This way the swirl has max chance of staying full
It will have the hot fuel returned to tank by the pow pressure pump (in 1) above)
Ian
I disagree with you on return - it must be to the swirl pot or under braking when the LP pumps are sucking ait the HP pump which is normally a much higher volume too will empty the swirl in seconds
Sure the engine is not burning a lot of fuel under braking but the pump will still pump at max volume
I look at it as 2 separate systems
1) Low Pressure
Tank to filter to changeover valve to pump to swirl
Return from the swirl through changeover valve to tank from where fuel was drawn
2) High Pressure
Swirl to HP pump Filter fuel rail Return to swirl
This way the swirl has max chance of staying full
It will have the hot fuel returned to tank by the pow pressure pump (in 1) above)
Ian
So we agree that I need to;
1. Use Version 1 fuel diagram? Or?
2. Replace the Dura-lift pumps with pumps able to do at least 45 psi.
3. Move the filters before the new pumps.
I will probably need to use some kind of back flow valve for the new pumps. I bought some, but I don't think RCR installed them. I will have to look closer.
I also looked at the Kinsler Catalog suggested by Julian. They seem to have alot of good info.
1. Use Version 1 fuel diagram? Or?
2. Replace the Dura-lift pumps with pumps able to do at least 45 psi.
3. Move the filters before the new pumps.
I will probably need to use some kind of back flow valve for the new pumps. I bought some, but I don't think RCR installed them. I will have to look closer.
I also looked at the Kinsler Catalog suggested by Julian. They seem to have alot of good info.
Hi Ian,
So your saying that I need only to run one low pressure pump after the valve to pull from either the left or right side tanks?
Allen,
As you know, I am setting up the same Dynatek injection system. I have been wrestling with countless ideas and have got great tips from Dean.
My thoughts on the swirl pot issue and plumbing, as of yesterday, is a combination of Dean's set up and making the system a little less complex.
1. Run from one tank (the left in my case)
2. Pump fuel from that tank to the third tank (swirl pot back left side)
3. Drill an overflow hole in the top of the wall between the LH Tank and swirl pot (ala Dean Lampe)
4. Have a second (transfer) pump from the right hand tank replenish the left tank (not feeding the swirl pot)
5. Run the Walbro in-line high pressure pump from a fitting on the lower inside of the swirl pot wall, inside the chassis (got the pump as an add on from Dynatek).
6. The return line will go to the swirl pot, which will mix with the gas being pumped from the LH tank. (This is an attempt to not use the Pollack valve.)
The swirl pot will have four openings: 1 over flow opening to the left tank at the top of the joint wall, 1 feed line from a pump on the LH tank, 1 return line from the injectors, 1 output to the HP pump (to the injectors) line in the chassis.
As you know, I am setting up the same Dynatek injection system. I have been wrestling with countless ideas and have got great tips from Dean.
My thoughts on the swirl pot issue and plumbing, as of yesterday, is a combination of Dean's set up and making the system a little less complex.
1. Run from one tank (the left in my case)
2. Pump fuel from that tank to the third tank (swirl pot back left side)
3. Drill an overflow hole in the top of the wall between the LH Tank and swirl pot (ala Dean Lampe)
4. Have a second (transfer) pump from the right hand tank replenish the left tank (not feeding the swirl pot)
5. Run the Walbro in-line high pressure pump from a fitting on the lower inside of the swirl pot wall, inside the chassis (got the pump as an add on from Dynatek).
6. The return line will go to the swirl pot, which will mix with the gas being pumped from the LH tank. (This is an attempt to not use the Pollack valve.)
The swirl pot will have four openings: 1 over flow opening to the left tank at the top of the joint wall, 1 feed line from a pump on the LH tank, 1 return line from the injectors, 1 output to the HP pump (to the injectors) line in the chassis.
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Hi Allen
That is correct
It's the way I have mine set up (I've done 5500 miles no problems other than a blocked filter from umpteen years of building crud in the tank!
Atually I'm so tight I even did away with one filter
So Tank, pollack, filter, pump, swirl - tank
And Swirl, hp pump filter, fuel rail, swirl
Heeping it that simple means the change over valve does the changeover (no need for returne valves, the LP pump and HP pumps do their jobs - I like the Keep it simple principle
And for pumps I run a Facit Red top (Tick tick tick jobbie and it runs continuously and hammers when it sucks air so I know what it's doing) for the LP side and a Bosch HP pump said to be good for 500 hp (overkill) My engine is running just over 250hp.
IAn
OK - Thank you guys very much for your help.
I see how one can route fuel systems so many different ways and have it work. Since I already have the Pollak valve & fuel pump wiring for both tanks in place, I may as well use it. I may go with this version below or the Version 1, undecided for the moment. I feel real good about what we have come up with on the forum. :thumbsup: Thank goodness I only paid $99 each for the lift pumps. It looks like I won't make it to the Roadster Show with my car next week as planned, too many things in the works on the car.
Call this Version 1 - B
I see how one can route fuel systems so many different ways and have it work. Since I already have the Pollak valve & fuel pump wiring for both tanks in place, I may as well use it. I may go with this version below or the Version 1, undecided for the moment. I feel real good about what we have come up with on the forum. :thumbsup: Thank goodness I only paid $99 each for the lift pumps. It looks like I won't make it to the Roadster Show with my car next week as planned, too many things in the works on the car.
Call this Version 1 - B
When I looked at Pollak valves I not convinced based on the numbers supplied by the Company that we could achieve sufficient fuel flow volumes ( OK on pressures ) but I am impressed by the IMCO MARINE 3 port Superfuel Valves, which are fantastic bits of kit BUT at a price. Look up IMCO website ( California USA ) ALAN, I trust that the single low pressure pump in your latest sketch is at or below tank fuel levels, as I think you are asking too much of it as a suction pump . Frank
Thanks Frank - I will look up the IMCO website. I was under the impression others here are using the Pollak Valve. I was concerned with the flow from it as well. Still learning of coarse and hope it will be fine to use. I may contact Kinsler Fuel Injection and discuss my system with them for some additional input.
What I need to find out now is what I need to replace the lift pumps with, but I don't want to spend a lot on another pump either.
What I need to find out now is what I need to replace the lift pumps with, but I don't want to spend a lot on another pump either.
Swirl Pot and Fuel Injection
Facet #40290 Dura-Lift Fuel Pump
Facet® Dura-Lift® Fuel Pumps
Application: Refrigeration trucks, marine generator sets, diesel filtration systems, industrial applications, and other diesel lift applications. These pumps are rated for diesel fuel, gasoline, blended alcohol fuels, and fuel additives.
Solid State Reliability: Proven on many original equipment applications. No electrical contacts. No bearings or diaphragms to wear out or fatigue. Endurance life almost doubles that of our nearest competitor.
Easy to Install-Easy to Service: Two bolt mounting makes installations easy. Nothing to adjust. The pump is self-priming to 60 inches (1.5 m). Vertical mounting is preferred to assure maintenance of rated pressures. The transparent housing allows for visual capability to monitor the cleanliness of the stainless steel filter.
Eliminates Vapor Lock: When properly installed on most vehicles a constant, smooth, dependable supply of fuel under pressure is assured in the hottest weather or in high altitudes.
Available Features:
• Self-priming with a 5 ft. lift
• Check valve
• 4 hour dry run
• Self-regulating
• 50 GPH
• 12 - 15 PSI
• VCA approved EC 95/54
• 80 Micron Stainless Steel Filter
• Transient Protection
• State-of-the-Art Electronic
• Sealed Electronics
• Reverse Polarity Protection
• Corrosion Resistant over 100 hours salt spray
• Durable Transparent fuel bowl
• Light Weight - 3lbs (1.1kg)
• Dimensions 7-1/4” x 3-1/4 (180mm x 82mm)
• Low Power Requirements 1.4 amp on average
• Operating Temperature Range: -40F to 180F
Walbro External In Line Fuel Pump
GSL393 155 lph
GSL394 190 lph
GSL392 255 lph
Note:
155 lph = 41 gph
190 lph = 50 gph
255 lph = 67 gph
Facet #40290 Dura-Lift Fuel Pump
Facet® Dura-Lift® Fuel Pumps
Application: Refrigeration trucks, marine generator sets, diesel filtration systems, industrial applications, and other diesel lift applications. These pumps are rated for diesel fuel, gasoline, blended alcohol fuels, and fuel additives.
Solid State Reliability: Proven on many original equipment applications. No electrical contacts. No bearings or diaphragms to wear out or fatigue. Endurance life almost doubles that of our nearest competitor.
Easy to Install-Easy to Service: Two bolt mounting makes installations easy. Nothing to adjust. The pump is self-priming to 60 inches (1.5 m). Vertical mounting is preferred to assure maintenance of rated pressures. The transparent housing allows for visual capability to monitor the cleanliness of the stainless steel filter.
Eliminates Vapor Lock: When properly installed on most vehicles a constant, smooth, dependable supply of fuel under pressure is assured in the hottest weather or in high altitudes.
Available Features:
• Self-priming with a 5 ft. lift
• Check valve
• 4 hour dry run
• Self-regulating
• 50 GPH
• 12 - 15 PSI
• VCA approved EC 95/54
• 80 Micron Stainless Steel Filter
• Transient Protection
• State-of-the-Art Electronic
• Sealed Electronics
• Reverse Polarity Protection
• Corrosion Resistant over 100 hours salt spray
• Durable Transparent fuel bowl
• Light Weight - 3lbs (1.1kg)
• Dimensions 7-1/4” x 3-1/4 (180mm x 82mm)
• Low Power Requirements 1.4 amp on average
• Operating Temperature Range: -40F to 180F
Walbro External In Line Fuel Pump
GSL393 155 lph
GSL394 190 lph
GSL392 255 lph
Note:
155 lph = 41 gph
190 lph = 50 gph
255 lph = 67 gph
Ian Anderson
Lifetime Supporter
Another update from me.
After about five years on the road my Pollack valve gave up and was drawing from right tamk and returning to left.
I replaced it with a new one and after two tanks of fuel it has gone the same way as the first.
I am about to change to
Tank lp pump non return valve filter swirl and return swirl to solenoid valve to tank.
Swirl to hp pump filter fuel rail return to swirl.
So now going with two low pressure pumps one per tank and the solenoid valve wired into the same switched power source
I also have a second pair of solenoid valves that I may add in instead of the non return valves but each one draws an amp so do I really want more current drawn?
Ian
After about five years on the road my Pollack valve gave up and was drawing from right tamk and returning to left.
I replaced it with a new one and after two tanks of fuel it has gone the same way as the first.
I am about to change to
Tank lp pump non return valve filter swirl and return swirl to solenoid valve to tank.
Swirl to hp pump filter fuel rail return to swirl.
So now going with two low pressure pumps one per tank and the solenoid valve wired into the same switched power source
I also have a second pair of solenoid valves that I may add in instead of the non return valves but each one draws an amp so do I really want more current drawn?
Ian
In the drawing I personaly would put the reg after the fuel filter at the main fuel pump and block the exit of the fuel rail.
It will lower the fuel temps as it will not not absorb the heat from the eng in the valley.
My pressure reg is mounted at the surge tank and pumps straight back into the main tank.
It is no where near the engine.
Jim
It will lower the fuel temps as it will not not absorb the heat from the eng in the valley.
My pressure reg is mounted at the surge tank and pumps straight back into the main tank.
It is no where near the engine.
Jim
Jim,
are you suggesting dead heading the fuel rails? I was considering that myself on the fuel system of one of my other projects but wasnt sure if it would be a good way to go. It does solve some plumbing intricacies though.
On another note are you still making the shifter mechanisms for the GT40. I will need to call you to arrange one for my 40 which I am giving a 10 year birthday rebuild.
are you suggesting dead heading the fuel rails? I was considering that myself on the fuel system of one of my other projects but wasnt sure if it would be a good way to go. It does solve some plumbing intricacies though.
On another note are you still making the shifter mechanisms for the GT40. I will need to call you to arrange one for my 40 which I am giving a 10 year birthday rebuild.
Ricky ,yes I can make a shifter if you need one.
Yes dead head the fuel rail.
It has an inlet only,most manufacurers have been doing it for some years as it drops hydrocarbons because the fuel is cooler.
A lot of manufacturers are running the reg in the tank or fuel filter these days.
It has absolutely no issues with start up or anything else for that matter.
jim
Yes dead head the fuel rail.
It has an inlet only,most manufacurers have been doing it for some years as it drops hydrocarbons because the fuel is cooler.
A lot of manufacturers are running the reg in the tank or fuel filter these days.
It has absolutely no issues with start up or anything else for that matter.
jim
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