I see an error on a previous post...the water pump is P/N PH-569.
Need cooling help please
- Thread starter SpyderMike
- Start date
Interesting day:
First I vacuumed out as much coolant as I could by disconnecting the top small hose on the left side of the radiator and vacuuming from the top of the expansion tank. That worked well enough to bring the level down to remove the large water pump inlet hose. Then I vacuumed the rest from there. I got a good 3-4 gallons. There was definitely signs of brown residue/rust in the coolant that separated out in the catch jug I used.
Then I started pulling the thermostat and the water pump. The thermostat was easy...it was gasketed by a sealant that I will have to clean off.
The water pump on the other hand, was harder than it should have been. The accessory mounting plate that Roush designed holds the alternator, part of the AC compressor, and such. Well, this mounting plate blocks one bolt of the water pump (lower left) from pulling out completely to release the water pump. By simply notching this plate, the WP could be removed without the hassle of removing the entire plate and leaving accessories hanging. This will make reassembly just that much harder...with various spacers and such.
I also had one bolt that was not affected by the accessory plate, but could only be removed by a slight bend in bulkhead sheet metal.
After getting it all removed, I was glad I did. The WP was rusted/corroded and had gasket leaks. It is not going back in. I will need to flush the system I think. Lots of cleanup to do before reassembly.
First I vacuumed out as much coolant as I could by disconnecting the top small hose on the left side of the radiator and vacuuming from the top of the expansion tank. That worked well enough to bring the level down to remove the large water pump inlet hose. Then I vacuumed the rest from there. I got a good 3-4 gallons. There was definitely signs of brown residue/rust in the coolant that separated out in the catch jug I used.
Then I started pulling the thermostat and the water pump. The thermostat was easy...it was gasketed by a sealant that I will have to clean off.
The water pump on the other hand, was harder than it should have been. The accessory mounting plate that Roush designed holds the alternator, part of the AC compressor, and such. Well, this mounting plate blocks one bolt of the water pump (lower left) from pulling out completely to release the water pump. By simply notching this plate, the WP could be removed without the hassle of removing the entire plate and leaving accessories hanging. This will make reassembly just that much harder...with various spacers and such.
I also had one bolt that was not affected by the accessory plate, but could only be removed by a slight bend in bulkhead sheet metal.
After getting it all removed, I was glad I did. The WP was rusted/corroded and had gasket leaks. It is not going back in. I will need to flush the system I think. Lots of cleanup to do before reassembly.
Glad you are going all in on this and doing it the right way. Be sure to bend, and twist the hoses and look for cracks. Good job Mike.
Regards Brian
Regards Brian
Thanks Brian! It needed it. I could tell when I saw the coolant color. So far the hoses are looking fairly good.
I agree with you about only wanting to do this once!
Any idea if there is a preferred brand of replacement pump?
I agree with you about only wanting to do this once!
Any idea if there is a preferred brand of replacement pump?
Mike, there probably is, but I’ll let others chime in. It’s been some time since I’ve built a SBF engine. My Lola will be a BBC with a electric water pump.
Regards Brian
Regards Brian
Got it...
ahhh, a Lola. Nice...
ahhh, a Lola. Nice...
It's been a while since I had the back off of my waterpump, but that looks like a crappy redesign made to work equally poorly clockwise as anticlockwise.
I'm running serpentine with WP running backwards and I'm sure I remember the pump discharge paths following the tangent as the water comes out of the impeller. Mine is spec'ed for a late model 5.8 in a 3/4 ton van.
On the plus side, you have the correct timing cover for a CW (pre serpentine) water pump. If you look OEM, I think that's pre '83 or so.
I'm running serpentine with WP running backwards and I'm sure I remember the pump discharge paths following the tangent as the water comes out of the impeller. Mine is spec'ed for a late model 5.8 in a 3/4 ton van.
On the plus side, you have the correct timing cover for a CW (pre serpentine) water pump. If you look OEM, I think that's pre '83 or so.
Found an image online
Not a rear view of the pump, but the bottom gasket goes between the back plate and pump, and you can see the discharge's shape. You can also make it out on the front how it nicely turns the coolan't flow.
What you have omits 2 bolts and guarantees a leak from the pump to the timing cover.
Not a rear view of the pump, but the bottom gasket goes between the back plate and pump, and you can see the discharge's shape. You can also make it out on the front how it nicely turns the coolan't flow.
What you have omits 2 bolts and guarantees a leak from the pump to the timing cover.
Brian, I don’t think the image you posted is the same pump that Mike’s car is using, although I agree with you that two bolt holes go unused with his application. The pump in the image appears to be a standard rotation long pump based on the single bolt pattern hub, what appears to be the smaller 5/8” shaft, and the included gaskets.
looking at the back side of Mike’s pump and the PH-569 cast into the front on early castings, I’d say he has the standard rotation short pump (PN M-8501-E351S), which requires an unusual gasket between the pump and backing plate. The gasket part number is Fel-Pro 35214, and it’s very difficult to find, but it does come included with the short pump.
looking at the back side of Mike’s pump and the PH-569 cast into the front on early castings, I’d say he has the standard rotation short pump (PN M-8501-E351S), which requires an unusual gasket between the pump and backing plate. The gasket part number is Fel-Pro 35214, and it’s very difficult to find, but it does come included with the short pump.
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Thanks. I know it's a different pump, but by it's lackluster design, I thought it might be some chinese autozone model invented to replace both early and late model pumps regardless of direction.
I didn't know there was a shorter nosed waterpump.
So I guess that is a legitimate pump. But I'll still stand by my statement it's close to symmetric and not optimized for it's rotation and not going to flow as well or efficiently as the one I posted.
Also, it there a specific era timing cover that one is supposed to mate to? Without the aluminum casting on both sides of the thin steel plate to provide pressure for the gaskets, that's a failure waiting to happen.
I didn't know there was a shorter nosed waterpump.
So I guess that is a legitimate pump. But I'll still stand by my statement it's close to symmetric and not optimized for it's rotation and not going to flow as well or efficiently as the one I posted.
Also, it there a specific era timing cover that one is supposed to mate to? Without the aluminum casting on both sides of the thin steel plate to provide pressure for the gaskets, that's a failure waiting to happen.
It will work with any SBF standard or universal type timing cover. The one on my engine is RF-E7PE-6059-AA.
MotorTrend did a decent job some time ago laying out the various differences.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/pit-stop-ford-small-block-v8-front-cover-water-pump-interchange/
I don’t disagree with your assertions regarding weak flow design or durability, I’m on the fence about switching to a remote electric pump and controller.
Oh, one other thing I should mention, the short WP specifically requires aftermarket CVF pulleys for proper belt alignment.
MotorTrend did a decent job some time ago laying out the various differences.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/pit-stop-ford-small-block-v8-front-cover-water-pump-interchange/
I don’t disagree with your assertions regarding weak flow design or durability, I’m on the fence about switching to a remote electric pump and controller.
Oh, one other thing I should mention, the short WP specifically requires aftermarket CVF pulleys for proper belt alignment.
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That article is a good find.
When figuring out what I was using I lost some hair trying to find pulleys, timing cover and water pump because I wanted the higher flow from a heavy truck and reverse rotation for a serpentine belt and hopefully no fuel pump boss to block off.
Could have saved hours on ebay and rock auto taking notes and seeing what numbers cross-referenced if I found that earlier.
When figuring out what I was using I lost some hair trying to find pulleys, timing cover and water pump because I wanted the higher flow from a heavy truck and reverse rotation for a serpentine belt and hopefully no fuel pump boss to block off.
Could have saved hours on ebay and rock auto taking notes and seeing what numbers cross-referenced if I found that earlier.
So, is there a better pump that I should be buying for my engine?
There’s no other short style pump that I’m aware of, which is needed to minimize the bump-out on the bulkhead panel, so your only other choice is to go electric I think. If you’re not concerned with how far the pump protrudes through the bulkhead, then there are stronger and better flowing aftermarket pumps available.
Thank you. I will stick with the same pump then.
I saw a groved WP pulley, so yes. CW rotation.
Also, if you changed, you would have to space your crank pulley and other accessories too.
Between the water pump back plate and timing cover, you only need sealant around the water port, and you really do need it there since the thin plate is unsupported part of the way.
Also, if you changed, you would have to space your crank pulley and other accessories too.
Between the water pump back plate and timing cover, you only need sealant around the water port, and you really do need it there since the thin plate is unsupported part of the way.
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