Need some help selecting heads

I am currently building a 331 stroker for my RCR GT40. I am using forged pistons that should yield between 10.2 and 10.5 compression and a mild hydraulic roller cam. I plan to use Weber 48IDA's for induction. Here is my dilema/concern:

Should I pick cylinder heads with 1.94 or 2.02 intake considering the butterfly in a 48IDA is less than 2.02? If I go with a 2.02 or 2.05 intake, will I be choking the engine at high (6000 and above) RPM?

Thanks

Bill D
Los Angeles, CA
 

Ron Earp

Admin
If you are using a mild hydraulic roller cam you won't be at 6000+ RPM much because you'll probably be operating at RPMs less than that. A mild cam won't want more RPM and the hydraulic rollers won't want much over 6200-6500 RPM tops. I'd use the 2.02 inch valve size.

I am getting concerned about weber flows after talking to more than a few people that have used them on motors. Pierce, Top End, etc. will tell you one thing, while dyno experience from folks that have compared them will tell you another. Once RPM gets to 6500+ it seems like they are restritive in some motor builds, but it depends on how radical they are built.

Jerry just told me the other day about a 351 motor that was biult for RPM and how the 48 IDAs really choked the thing above about 6400 RPM or so. Putting a 4bbl on the motor made it like night an day, dropped some torque but it'll pull to 7800RPM with no restriction - wouldn't do it with the webers.

R
 
Thanks Ron. As you know, the X cam peaks at 6500 RPM, about the same time as the Webers.

What do you think of the Edelbrock Victor Jr heads (60cc chambers, 2.05/1.60 valves)?
 

Sandy

Gulf GT40
Lifetime Supporter
Bill -

Are you not going to use the Canfield's due to the exhaust port placement?

Sandy
 
That's correct Sandy. I don't know if Fran can alter the fabrication of the headers to account for the change in exhaust location. If he can, then I will go with the Canfields. If not, then I have to find an alternative.

I haven't ordered the heads yet. So if Fran sees this, maybe he can provide some information to help me decide.

Cheers
Bill D
 

Ian Clark

Supporter
Hi Ron,

Maybe we need a Webers vs 4 Barrel forum:) Ok yo can shoot me now hahahah.

The biggest advantage a 4 barrel has over Webers is ease of tuning. This comes from the vast body of knowledge available both locally and at the vendor level for 4bbl setups.

There are precious few people around that can get all the performance out of a set of Webers. We should be cloning them now for future generations.

I'm living with the Weber learning curve right now, after paying darn good money to a couple of different shops, both perported to be Weber experts.

What become apparent is that Webers don't like what 4bbls like. Not the cam and not the ignition timing either.

Webers are like a pure analog multiport fuel injection system if there was such a thing. Not unlike a vinyl record vs a cd. No argument the cd is quieter and easier to use, it just doesn't sound as good as a record (on decent equipment).

Webers provide each cylinder with an instantaneous shot of emulsified air/fuel mixture and will normally out pull a 4bbl in torque as you have noted. If they're falling on their faces at high rpm then something isn't right with the motor and or carbs internals, not that the carbs aren't right for the application.

So were back to body of knowledge, expensive dyno time and equally expensive Weber jetting parts. Each carb has two main jets, two idle jets, two emulsion tubes, two air correctors, one accelerator pump exhaust valve and two venturies (chokes in the Queens english). Times four carbs and each part has to work in harmoney with the rest. No wonder people are afraid of Webers!

Once the FMS392/48IDA is running at its' best, the carb, engine and tuning specs will be posted on the forum. Perhaps we can get to a series of engine combinations with known to work Weber set ups.

The car deserves Webers, however a good 8 Stack system like Waynes from Very Cool Parts is my other choice. Hey, at the price of gas these days you could pay for the cost difference in fuel ecomomy alone!

Cheers
 

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Ron Earp

Admin
Ian, even if it isn't running the best info would be appreciated.

I'd disagree on one tiny point - that the carbs can't be "wrong" for the application. The largest chokes I'm told that can be fitted to a set of 48 IDAs is 44mm, therefore, there is going to be a limit to what the carbs can handle. Be it a 342 inch motor at 8000 RPM or a 392 inch motor at XXXX RPM. You guys might experience what Jerry did - great torque and power to a point then it just falls off - nothing more could be done since the airflow through the carb was maxed out.

For my own personal application I really can't afford to drop off 1500 or 2000 RPM. I built the high RPM motor to get around the short gear transaxle problem so the motor needs to pull as high as it was built to pull. And, I wanted to lose to low-end torque to be easier on the transaxle, although I don't know if we've done that or not.

Webers, or any multi carb system requires some time and effort as you guys know. I'd be interested in any numbers you've got thus far and the expected RPM range you are running in. I assume you've got a hydraluic motor so you're not looking for 7500+ power?
 

Sandy

Gulf GT40
Lifetime Supporter
I would definitly ask Fran could make life simple!

The changes would be pretty slight I'll bet, mostly just lengthing the tubes that cross over. My understanding is that they have to be built and as such not might not be a big deal (may depend on if stainless or regular steel??), and depending on how the headers are built might already have the slip joints in the right place. I ordered exhaust flanges for the Edelbrock Victors also for this reason to make Fran's header guy's job easy as I'll be shipping him the motor for fitment or as much as I can get him to do!

The Canfield bolt patterns allow use of either stock or spread out bolts (my preference). I think the AFR's also have a dual bolt pattern, but I can't remember. A few people make header flanges ready to go for either (Headers by Ed, or Fran and his magic water jet machine work).

Ron's route is the easiest, go with the AFR's and you wouldn't have to worry. Total Engine Airflow has a good comparison of all the ford heads to get an idea of which AFR's are inline with what your needs are.

2.02"-2.05" + Intakes for sure /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sandy
 
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