New American Flag?
- Thread starter IanAnderson
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Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Tim, as a life long sailor and a former Sea Scout, I have had many dealings with the "Coasties".................a finer, more capable bunch you will not Find!
Our Howard Jones is a very, very good example!
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You guys are all funny. You all bring out exceptions to the rule (oh and that airline pilot PRACTICED THAT EXACT LANDING MANY MANY MANY TIMES). Remember my statement about training a monkey. Also the example of working with vets who have been outside of the military for some time and had a chance to wait for it RETRAIN THEMSELVES more to the point retrain their thought process is laughable. The fact that the unemployment rate is so high for vets is proof positive that the military isn't turning out productive citizens outside of the military arena. As a boss I would love vets because they understand chain of command and it is INSTILLED in them not to question the boss. they ARE great followers BUT NOT GREAT LEADERS. You all keep making my point for me. Listen I come from a LONG line of military families (brother currently serving in the navy, cousins in the army, even a cousin in the marines, and father and uncle both retired from the military, and both sets of grandparents were military) and those that joined today out of an escape from reality are not even close to those that joined out of wanting to serve GOD and country for days of old. Todays recruits cry when asked to fight not cheer for it. If you don't want to fight or have the possibility of losing you life in the name of GOD and country than why join the military? This whole change in the mentality of the common recruit is what you all refuse to admit is running ramped in todays military. Again your point about west point keeps proving me my point not yours as MOST service men do NOT attend such places so stop using that please. As hot as this topic is when you all step away from this and think about it I bet you will mostly agree. Hey some are meant to lead and some are meant to serve. Officers if not lifers leave soon after to get away from the knuckle heads in the military and move to the private sector which leads to some's pet pieve (the private sector doing it better than the military). Ask yourself this fella's ... who does MOST of the development for the military ... the private sector or the armed forces themselves. Here is a hint the U.S. military sure isn't building any drones or aircraft are they ( I wish they did but the reality is they are not)?
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Pat
Supporter
Damian, you're talking through your hat. You are also thoroughly unfamiliar with the federal procurement process. The military forecasts requirements and bid developmental and construction contracts. It would not be legal for the military to open its own aircraft factory and compete with the private sector.
I also don't think most will agree that Sullenberger's decision process under the pressure he was under was something you could get a monkey to do or was only the product of rote training with little independent assessment and decision making. He went back swimming underwater into the rear of the plane, even though it was sinking to insure all the passengers got out probably wasn't in the manual and I suspect a lesser man would not have chosen to do so (see Costa Concordia Captain).
It's also apparent don't have a clue as to the military education system or how the chain of command works. (By the way, Colin Powell was an ROTC graduate.) Soldiers are trained to provide leaders input and successful officers listen to their NCO's. Patton was quoted as saying, “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.” Military leaders are taught to listen to their staff, their troops and make decisions. If they don’t listen, they don’t get very far. But when a decision is made, it is supported.
You've never been in the military, you don't know. But given the intensity of your biases, I suspect you're not open to find out. I would submit that bias such as yours has much more to do with the sad state of veteran’s employment than any lack of productivity of returning vets. I can't speak to whatever issues you may have had with the military members of your family. But it is clear you are emotional in your bias and dead wrong.
You assessment as to why people join the military as some sort of escape also doesn't gel with the data. New enlistees are polled as to why they came in the military. Number one citing service to country as their main motivation went from 27.5 percent of all responses in 2002 to 38.1 percent in 2006. (It was followed by skills acquisition, cited by 20.2 percent, then by adventure, mentioned by 16.4 percent, then by money for education, benefits, travel, and pay.) Certainly the recent job market would probably influence subsequent data.
I have a feeling you probably would not enjoy basic training or OCS but it would probably be amusing to watch…
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Veek, that dude is whack. I'd let it go. People who have met and worked with our military folks know what the deal is.
There are some things in the US I'm not proud of. The professionalism, dedication to civilian rule, and just overall ability of our military to get the job done is not one of them. We are very lucky to have the military we have.
There are some things in the US I'm not proud of. The professionalism, dedication to civilian rule, and just overall ability of our military to get the job done is not one of them. We are very lucky to have the military we have.
Getting rid of the draft certainly was a quantum leap in excellence for our military, may it survive these draconian cuts.
Jim Craik
Lifetime Supporter
Posted by Bob
Bob, please explain again about the "draconian cuts".
Defense Spending 1962-2015 (inflation-adjusted 2009 dollars)<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-10>[11]</SUP><SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-11>[12]</SUP>
<SUP class=reference></SUP>
<SUP class=reference>It looks to me that even after the cut back, we are still spending more that when Reagan and the cold war were around!</SUP>
<SUP class=reference></SUP>
<SUP class=reference>Why?</SUP>
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Howard Jones
Supporter
Ahh Jim, That appears to be a 2010 chart. The draconian cuts mentioned above were announced by Hussein yesterday as part of the 2013 federal budget. Pretty much the only thing cut by the way.
That omission of fact would cost you debate points my friend. Mustn't mislead us,........ tis! tis!
That omission of fact would cost you debate points my friend. Mustn't mislead us,........ tis! tis!
This quote will show what I mean by thinkers and not followers :
Damian, you're talking through your hat. You are also thoroughly unfamiliar with the federal procurement process. The military forecasts requirements and bid developmental and construction contracts. It would not be legal for the military to open its own aircraft factory and compete with the private sector. First off WHEN did I mention anything about the federal govt doing ANYTHING for th private sector? Never not once so this whole argument is not only wrong but pointless as nothing was ever mentioned about it. I was talking about closed projects for MILITARY USE ONLY. They pay the guys much much less than the private sector but lets face it the military DOESN'T HAVE THE BRAIN TRUST and that's the REAL REASON that the private sector is so active. They also don't have to deal with all of the red tape when dealing with bureaucrats so the whole process can be streamlined (see my post about the military getting it's head out of it's A$$).
Second I am very familiar with how the military works and to your own # show that EDUCATION was what 3rd on the list of reasons. Duty to country at 38.1% is laughable. Right I'm sure that the alpha types in the military would OPENLY admit (when they wouldn't and couldn't even admit to being gay) to running from anything or looking for a way out. I believe that most under privilege kids join ( I have spent still have family that is dirt poor and talk to them and their Friends (who have joined straight out of ROTC) and lets just say that their reality is vastly different than those PUMPED UP #'s you posted and for that exact reason not any other. Also lets remember what happened in 2001 that would account for that jump (way to leave that little tid bit out that DRASTICLY DISTORTS THE #'S. See thinker as opposed to some who only regurgitates). Had that event not happened what would the #'s be then and more to the point that is a 10 year old stat. WHAT ARE THE #'S NOW??????? If the past is any for caster of the future than again you are shown to be incorrect.See You might want to stop because the facts leave you no room to wiggle once someone that can actually understand the #'s starts to dig into them. Anything else you would like for me to shine light on? Let me state that I love the U.S. military and I for one think that they should expand their budgets all across the board but as long as people are crying about terrorist right instead of protecting our country and as long as these brave men are not rightfully compensated for what they do than the private sector will always win out thus my comment about the military pulling it's head out of it's A$$. Please keep putting #'s up so that you can continue to prove my point!!!!!
Damian, you're talking through your hat. You are also thoroughly unfamiliar with the federal procurement process. The military forecasts requirements and bid developmental and construction contracts. It would not be legal for the military to open its own aircraft factory and compete with the private sector. First off WHEN did I mention anything about the federal govt doing ANYTHING for th private sector? Never not once so this whole argument is not only wrong but pointless as nothing was ever mentioned about it. I was talking about closed projects for MILITARY USE ONLY. They pay the guys much much less than the private sector but lets face it the military DOESN'T HAVE THE BRAIN TRUST and that's the REAL REASON that the private sector is so active. They also don't have to deal with all of the red tape when dealing with bureaucrats so the whole process can be streamlined (see my post about the military getting it's head out of it's A$$).
Second I am very familiar with how the military works and to your own # show that EDUCATION was what 3rd on the list of reasons. Duty to country at 38.1% is laughable. Right I'm sure that the alpha types in the military would OPENLY admit (when they wouldn't and couldn't even admit to being gay) to running from anything or looking for a way out. I believe that most under privilege kids join ( I have spent still have family that is dirt poor and talk to them and their Friends (who have joined straight out of ROTC) and lets just say that their reality is vastly different than those PUMPED UP #'s you posted and for that exact reason not any other. Also lets remember what happened in 2001 that would account for that jump (way to leave that little tid bit out that DRASTICLY DISTORTS THE #'S. See thinker as opposed to some who only regurgitates). Had that event not happened what would the #'s be then and more to the point that is a 10 year old stat. WHAT ARE THE #'S NOW??????? If the past is any for caster of the future than again you are shown to be incorrect.See You might want to stop because the facts leave you no room to wiggle once someone that can actually understand the #'s starts to dig into them. Anything else you would like for me to shine light on? Let me state that I love the U.S. military and I for one think that they should expand their budgets all across the board but as long as people are crying about terrorist right instead of protecting our country and as long as these brave men are not rightfully compensated for what they do than the private sector will always win out thus my comment about the military pulling it's head out of it's A$$. Please keep putting #'s up so that you can continue to prove my point!!!!!
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Very true I didn't say I wouldn't hire a coastie just that I don't have one
Many years ago I bought a boat and sailed from the west coast of Florida down around the keys and back up to the Palm Beach area. We lost one engine and had no wind so I was 12 hours overdue into key west so my wife called the coasties. They flew a cargo aircraft along my planned route until they located us and established radio contact. Great bunch of guys!!
