Now We're in Trouble!

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
It WILL be interesting. I think it's funny that Boehner is trying to dictate to the President. Last I heard, the President doesn't take orders from the House Speaker.

...nor does the Speaker take orders from the President. And what about Harry Reid effectively appointing himself president? I'm referring to his pseudo-presidential veto of all the bills passed by the House that he refused to place on the floor of the Senate for a vote. Doing that had the same effect as if the President had vetoed them.


I think Boehner is trying to force Obama to act on his own with regard to immigration etc- so that the Congress has a perfect excuse for getting even with the President and doing nothing that he wants to accomplish. I'm disappointed in Boehner, but I expected about that. What else is new? Nothing.

IMHO the whole of 'D.C.' amounts to nothing more than a huge sandbox full of adult-sized kindergarten kids in dire need of a strict playground monitor.
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
We who live here try to stay outside the Beltway. It's sort of another world in there, made of hot air and not much substance. I'm surprised it hasn't floated off the ground.

I used to date a woman who worked on the Hill and later married a prominent former member of Congress and GOP leader. She suggested to me one time that I testify on Capitol Hill about emergency medicine and what we do. I told her I thought it would be a total waste of time and that I'd rather be in the ED seeing patients. No offense, I said, but you folks down there are totally separated from the real world. That didn't go over too well, but I still feel that way.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Where did I suggest a veto override, Doug? I "suggested" defunding any exec order that bypasses congress which requires funding.

You didn't mention veto overrides, Larry...but you did suggest that Boehner and his Republican partners in crime in the Senate move the 300 some bills on to the president. That is what precipitated my comment regarding the vetoes.

If I were B.O. (and thank goodness I'm not!!!) and the Repubs tried to force the issue on all those bills, I'd veto every one. You said something to the effect of watching to see if the Republicans would walk the walk and get the bills out of the black hole where Reid sent them...in effect, as I understand the tone of your comment, use their new-found power to pressure the POTUS by inundating him with all those bills. As I said, if I were POTUS and the Repubs did such a thing, I would view it as a spiteful act and would react in kind...vetoing every one of them, bringing the pressure right back on the Repubs to find 2/3 majority in both houses that it would take to override the vetoes.

In all actuality, I realize that there are probably some of those bills that Reid kept from coming to votes in the Senate that B.O. would probably sign, but if I had to guess (and that's what it is) I'd say they would be a small minority.

Here's what I believe to be the primary dynamic involved at this point. The Repubs have already stated that their primary objective is to get the ACA repealed. That is Obama's major accomplishment, and whether or not you agree with the implementation I think there's pretty much agreement that getting everyone to carry their own medical insurance so that their medical care doesn't have to be paid by tax monies is something we as a country needed to address. So...think about it...if the Repubs try to repeal the ACA, B.O. will be backed against the wall and I think he'll come out fighting...and one of those ways would be to veto every bill that is sponsored or approved by the Republican majorities in EITHER of the legislative bodies. Now, I believe that many of those issues about which people are upset (including your favorite obsession, that "...if you like your doctor you can keep him...") really do need to be tweaked, and if I were B.O. I would agree with those tweaks because that is not a hill on which I would want to lose the war...however, he WILL feel he has to battle with every tool he has if the hill grows into that mountain called "Repeal the ACA/Obama-Care", and he'll use every weapon he has to repel the enemy, including the power of the veto as well as executive orders.

In actuality, there's a history of vindictive actions by various POTUS...particularly Tricky Dick Nixon, who had a reputation of being vicious if you crossed him. So far B.O. has not risen to that level...but I believe that he has the potential, and also believe he's much smarter than Nixon and would not make the kind of hatred-driven mistakes Nixon made. He's almost done with his 8 years and ready to turn the reigns over to Hillary, so why push the envelope unless he's pushed to do so.

The Repubs should pick a different hill than ACA, IMHO, but if they go about it right I do believe they can achieve some of the things about which many have complained...think in the gestalt, not the minutiae...we as a country (and as taxpayers) really need the intent of the ACA, it's just the minutiae that needs to be attended to.

As for your issue with strict constitutional interpretation...well, we'll just have to agree that we'll continue to disagree on that issue, Larry...no need to rehash the obvious.

Cheers!

Doug
 
Last edited:

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Congress can over ride a presidential veto with a super majority / two thirds vote.

Exactly, Al!

Just curious to know if there are 67 Republican members in the Senate. I can imagine the Repubs have the 2/3 needed in the House, but the Senate?

Admittedly, there may be some Dems that would jump ship and vote with the Repubs....but the opposite is true, too, some Repubs may jump ship and vote with the Dems.

The last election may have created more issues than it resolved???

Cheers!

Doug
 
Concerning the ACA I don't see any GOP replacement. What do you tell the millions of Americans with pre existing conditions or affordable health coverage when you take away their insurance? You're screwed?
Where's the positive GOP agenda? Actually talk of ACA repeal is probably a charade since GOP politicians have been big recipients of health insurance campaign money. ACA has boosted insurer profits and doubled their stock prices.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
You didn't mention veto overrides, Larry...

Thank you for that.

...but you did suggest that Boehner and his Republican partners in crime(LOL! As opposed to BO and HIS, you mean!) in the Senate move the 300 some bills on to the president.

That's exactly what's supposed to happen, is it not??? Bills passed in the House move to the Senate to be voted on, and when passed there, are sent on to the president. The bills on Reid's desk WERE passed in the House, but, Reid wouldn't put 'em up for a vote in the Senate. That's NOT the way The Founders designed 'the program' to work. The GOPs voting on/passing 'bills and fwding 'em to the Pres is exactly the way the program is supposed to work. As BO and the boys have repeatedly said over the past 6 years, "elections have consequences".


You said something to the effect of watching to see if the Republicans would walk the walk and get the bills out of the black hole where Reid sent them...in effect, as I understand the tone of your comment (you understood correctly), use their new-found power to pressure the POTUS by inundating him with all those bills. As I said, if I were POTUS and the Repubs did such a thing, I would view it as a spiteful act and would react in kind...vetoing every one of them, bringing the pressure right back on the Repubs to find 2/3 majority in both houses that it would take to override the vetoes.

...which would show the whole nation just who the REAL "obstructionist(s)" is(are)! Remember, many of those bills were bipartisan.


...there are probably some of those bills that Reid kept from coming to votes in the Senate that B.O. would probably sign...

'VERY doubtful IMHO. I'd wager Reid & Obama 'conferenced' on what bills to hold votes on and fwd...and which ones Obama wanted Reid to leave sitting on his own desk w/o a vote.



As regards Obamacare; that whole albatross is complete MESS, and everybody with a brain that functions normally knows it. The ONLY - ONLY - people who've "benefited" from it in any large fashion are the people who aren't really paying for their coverage...'the people who are getting GOVT SUBS - the very TAX MONEY you just said yourself you don't want to see being spent!

On that score, Doug, juuuuust wait until this January when voters see the full weight of Obamacare hit employer-based health care plans...you know...the provisions of Obamacare that BO put off implementing until A-F-T-E-R the midterms??? THEN let's see 'perzackly' what the voters' reaction/mood is with regard to that whole mess! The final bill was 100% a DEMOCRAT creation...NOT ONE GOP voted for it, and the Dems who DID didn't even bother to read it! What could possibly go wrong? On top of that, the sales pitch 'the people' were given on it was a pack of l-i-e-s. That ought to illustrate for you just how screwed up the whole process was.

The whole darned "plan"(???!) ought to be put on hold until a bill that makes sense and doesn't rocket eveyone's premiums thru the roof can be worked out.
 
Last edited:
As regards Obamacare; that whole albatross is complete MESS, and everybody with a brain that functions normally knows it. The ONLY - ONLY - people who've "benefited" from it in any large fashion are the people who aren't really paying for their coverage.../QUOTE]

Do you have any pre existing conditions Larry? Maybe you don't care because you're on a corporate plan or Medicare. WA was one of the few states that limited insurance companies ability to deny coverage for most pre existing conditions. I had to move to WA for that very reason 10 years ago. Most states allowed insurers to deny coverage for virtually any reason. And yes I pay for my coverage under Obamacare, no subsidy.
 
Last edited:

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
As regards Obamacare; that whole albatross is complete MESS, and everybody with a brain that functions normally knows it. The ONLY - ONLY - people who've "benefited" from it in any large fashion are the people who aren't really paying for their coverage.../QUOTE]

Do you have any pre existing conditions Larry? Maybe you don't care (Oh, puhleeeeeze...not that tired old canard again :evil:) because you're on a corporate plan or Medicare. WA was one of the few states that limited insurance companies ability to deny coverage for most pre existing conditions. I had to move to WA for that very reason 10 years ago. Most states allowed insurers to deny coverage for virtually any reason. And yes I pay for my coverage under Obamacare, no subsidy.

Pre-existing conditions could have been handled w/o the need to bankrupt everyone else on the plan in the process. In fact, the whole plan could have just dealt with all kinds of 'hard cases' alone for faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar less $$$s that the present boondoggle. Turning health care as we knew it totally upsidedown for E-V-E-R-Y-B-O-D-Y was just not necessary.

The point is Obamacare as it now stands is nothing less than a big income redistribution scheme that govt has no business forcing us all into...regardless of and despite what Roberts decided.
 
Last edited:
Doug, Do you honestly believe that Hillary would make a good president? I can't think of anything spectacular she has done in any post she has held. She even babbled on for a short time listing what she done and said nothing. So far the "first" hasn't worked out that well and that's certainly not the criteria for electing the President of The US. And surrounding the office with know nothing cronies hasn't worked well either. Would you vote for someone else more qualified regardless of party? I would.
 
Pre-existing conditions could have been handled w/o the need to bankrupt everyone else on the plan in the process.

So where is the GOP plan to deal with pre existing conditions? I'm not an unqualified fan of Obamacare. I just don't see the GOP solving health coverage issues period.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
So where is the GOP plan to deal with pre existing conditions? I'm not an unqualified fan of Obamacare. I just don't see the GOP solving health coverage issues period.

Wade thru the link below if you wish, but, 'last I heard, the GOP wanted to do the whole thing the way it shudda been done in the 1st place...in the open...formulating a plan that's logical, effective, and fiscally responsible, and do it in a bipartisan way.

Ya...good luck with that. Talk is cheap.

The only thing that's totally clear to any rational person is the fact that Obamacare as it presently exists is a total JOKE that will implode on itself in darned short order...

Senate Republicans Develop The Most Credible Plan Yet To 'Repeal And Replace' Obamacare - Forbes
 
Larry I'm sure you would rather have me go away, but your Forbes article on the GOP plan has this quote:
"It wouldn’t maintain Obamacare’s individual mandate, nor its requirement that insurers offer coverage to everyone regardless of pre-existing health conditions. "
Problem not solved. I'd be all for an alternative that worked, but repealing Obamacare and telling those that had coverage for pre existing conditions- now you're F----d is irresponsible and heartless.
 
PSYCHOLOGY 101 - HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERIMENT


If you start with a cage containing five monkeys, and inside the cage

hang a banana on a string from the top, and then you place a set of
stairs under the banana, before long a monkey will go to the stairs and

climb toward the banana.



As soon as he touches the stairs, you spray ALL the monkeys with cold

water.

After a while another monkey makes an attempt with same result -- ALL

the monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon when another monkey

tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it. Now, put the cold water away.

Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new monkey. The

new monkey sees the banana and attempts to climb the stairs. To his shock, ALL of the other monkeys beat the Monkey Crap out of him.

After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys, replacing it with a
new monkey. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm -- because he is now part of the "team."

Then, replace a third original monkey with a new monkey, followed by the fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Now, the monkeys that are beating him up have no
idea why they were not permitted to
climb the stairs. Neither do they know why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

Finally, having replaced all of the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys will have ever been sprayed with cold water.
Nevertheless, not one of the monkeys will try to climb the stairway for the banana.


Why, you ask? Because in their minds, that is the way it has always been!


This, my friends, is how today's House and Senate operates; and this is why, from time to time:

ALL of the monkeys need to be REPLACED AT THE SAME TIME!


DISCLAIMER: This is meant as no disrespect to monkeys.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
...repealing Obamacare and telling those that had coverage for pre existing conditions- now you're F----d is irresponsible and heartless.

..but, telling all the rest of the people who were perfectly satisfied with the insurance they had that they can't have that anymore...they now have to pay triple (or whatever) for their insurance...they have to pay far higher deductables...they now have to get/pay for additional coverage they don't want or need as well in order to cover the cost of someone else's premium who wants/needs this-or-that coverage isn't? Telling the vast majority THEY are now "F----d" isn't? Really?

Ooooooooookay... :shrug:
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
I'm not sure about that ("all the rest of the people"). I've got my own corporate sponsored insurance, and don't have to make any changes to it, so the ACA hasn't had any adverse impact on me whatsoever.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
I'm not sure about that ("all the rest of the people"). I've got my own corporate sponsored insurance, and don't have to make any changes to it, so the ACA hasn't had any adverse impact on me whatsoever.

Yet.

But, if what you say is true (and you ought to know!) it's probably only because the ins you have meets Obamacare dictates.

Let's see what happens after January...to both your coverage and premium!
 
Keith,
Reference your post to me about my two jokes you sent me two weeks ago, are these comments what you were inferring?
I still think they were funny....
Grady
 

Jim Rosenthal

Supporter
In Maryland we just didn't elect Anthony Brown as governor. He is (for a month or so) the Lieutenant Governor. He didn't do a good job- the one real task he had, which was the rollout of the ACA, he completely screwed up and wasted a huge amount of our money. Lt. Gov. or not, he wasn't entitled to be governor and he's not going to be. At least this time around.

I don't see the compelling reasons to elect Hillary Clinton, and I'm a lifelong Democrat (mostly, although I seem to be voting for more Republicans these days) I'm not certain she's the best we can do. I do think she would have been a better choice than Obama, in hindsight, and I wish she'd been President these eight years, but she's now eight years older at a time in her life when aging accelerates (and this has nothing to do with gender, btw) and I wonder if she's up to the job.

I hear stuff about how it's "her turn", which is honestly fucking bullshit. I also hear about how it's time for a woman president. I don't necessarily disagree, but I think there may be better choices. It isn't anyone's "turn" to be president. What is this, a banana republic?

The GOP may have, at least for the moment, reclaimed their party from the hands of Tea Party zealots and hysterics. If that is indeed the case, they may have a better shot at fielding a candidate who is socially liberal and fiscally conservative. My kind of candidate.

And no it won't be that fucking Ben Carson who should have stuck to neurosurgery and then gracefully retired. He's making a fool of himself.
 

Keith

Moderator
Keith,
Reference your post to me about my two jokes you sent me two weeks ago, are these comments what you were inferring?
I still think they were funny....
Grady

Of that I have no doubt, but at least we're on an appropriate page!
 
Back
Top