Open letter to Jim Price of Hi-Tech

[Richard]

Sorry for the long post but I think this is an important issue.

This is a request to Jim Price of Hi-Tech for pictures and information. Jim I now have GT40 P2197 safely tucked away at home and have already spent many hours enjoying it, and planning its future. It doesn’t take long to see how great these cars are but also issues the cars may have in the long term. After all back in the 60’s these were disposable race cars and were never designed to last many years in all type of weather.

It would be extremely useful if we had pictures and better yet blueprints of how the chassis is put together and what all the interior cavities looked like and their location before they were closed up. Your team did a great job of making an exact copy of the original cars but the original cars are known for having their share of rust issues. Lynn Miner owner of GT40 P2133 spent many, many hours drilling holes and weatherproofing cavities. I plan on doing the same but short of buying an endoscope and playing proctologist it would be much easier to have pictures and/or blueprints so I know where to weatherproof. This information will also be very important from a historical prospective.

A prime example of a place for water to collect is the cavity with the hole the RHD shifter rod would come out of. This hole is in every car, even the LHD prototype had one. This hole opens to a large cavity with no way for water to get out. Even though I never plan on driving my car in the rain I’m sure I will at some point and I don’t want to worry about it.

If you would like you can send the pictures and any digitized blue prints that you would be willing to share with the world to me at [email protected] and I will post them on this site. The higher the resolution the better, I will resize them as needed for posting but high-res 5 Mega pixel or greater pictures would be best. I hope someday a real gear head takes the time to tour your plant with a video camera to document the entire production process for posterity.

I’m sure I share with many people the thanks to you and the people at Hi-Tech for bringing these cars to fruition. You certainly made a dream of mine come true, thanks for the help.

p.s. I'm ready anytime you need a camera man.

 

[Richard]

I'll take input from anyone so don't be shy.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Richard ,

there are lots of pics of original chassis on the forum...

I am sure you could get a lot of very relative info from them to help you seal up your tub.....

John Shand and Brian Stewart have posted superb pics of their Dave Brown chassis, these were also built from Ford drawing and measurements , so they should prove pretty helpful.

 

[chuck smith]

I understood the SPF MONO to be treated for rust prevention, not that more could not improve it, but I would guess it to be pretty safe from occasional water.

 

[Scott Calabro]

Rich,

Go here and get some of this product. Spray it liberally where you want to prevent corrosion.

Dinitrol: Corrosion Protection

If you cant get it retail, I'll get a few cans for you.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Steve C]

Scott,

Which of their products would you recommend if a clear coating is desired...Most seem to be of a wax nature ...Is the dried product waxy/sticky and will it trap dust/dirt ect...Do you use in your builds or plan to use and if so where will you apply? Thanks, Steve (another New Englander)

 

[Scott Calabro]

Hi Steve,

None of them are really clear, optically. They were really never intended to be used in an area where what they look like after application is an issue/concern.

The product we used on the Jets / helo's at work is Dinitrol AV8 and AV30. Yes it never completely dries, although almost. It does have a slight tendancy to collect dust. This is minimal though. However the link I posted is for use specifically in body cavities.

I can't see a big use for it on an unmodified TS40. I will use it if I find an inaccessable / difficult are to protect though. Keep in mind I don't have to deal with the hidden cavities that an original mono / SPF mono has to.

The stuff is amazing, it is sprayed in our landing gear wells and wing root recesses. One of our aircraft is 5 years old and has close to 3800 hrs on it and there is no corrosion anywhere it has been applied.

It is the perfect product for what Richard W. wants to do.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Alan in Nevada]

You are wise to consider rust-proofing you SPF GT40 as a common malady of originals in the U.K. and on the Continent where the climate is wet is corrosion.

I've used rust-proofing kits on vehicles in the past which consisted of aerosol cans of rust-proofing agent with a long wand to access interior cavities. The rust-proofing agent was a light-brown waxy material. It seemed to do it's job; not hard enough to eventually flake off and not sticky as to attract dust. As was mentioned above, it's not applied where appearance would be an issue.

 

[Frank Catt]

On any mono or sheet steel construction, regardless of the type of steel used in manufacture, the areas most at risk, and the point at which corrosion starts almost from day 1, is the area between folded panels that are then subsequently spot welded together. As on most cars of this construction, particularly in the 60/70s, like the Etype Jaguars for instance, the burning of the steel surface by the welding process creates an instant potential corrosion point, together with the fact that two panels close together will hold any moister by capillary action. Some manufacturers try to overcome this by useing zinc rich coated steel, which while perported to be "self healing" cannot overcome that zinc being burnt away by the welding process. I understand that Hi Tech/Superformance use "zintech", one of this type of materials favoured in German car manufactures, but from what I have seen from a couple of early cars the subsequent chassis protection is a single covering of thin black paint. This is of course a commercial construction decision, and I am sure if we were to build such a chassis for our own use the first thing we would concentrate on, probably at quite an extra cost, would a long and difficuly process of treating each and every weld area with the aircraft type materials mentioned above, but it would take a long time to do and would not be commercially viable. Unfortunately to retro do this work is even more slow and painfull, and probably not what one would expect to have to do on a $$$$$$ car. Having said that, I am also adamently against powder coating such panels, this is an even worse scenario in the long term as the slightest score or crack in the coating will create a path of corrosion between the coating and the original material, rotting it away unseen until it is far too late to retrieve. The same concerns apply to powder coating over Aluminium, I have seen perfect looking panels just crumble away because the original steel / alumunium has been reduced to oxidised powder underneath. Frank

 

[Roy Snook]

Just my two cents worth, on the original cars the worst area for corrosion seems to be in the sills under the bag tanks which once wet doesn't dry out easily and the original cars were just bare metal in these areas, having said that it is interesting to note that I have seen 40 year old sill ribs with no rust on the inside and no form of protection! I now make these ribs in zintec and I have left unpainted zintec and steel outside for months in all weathers and the zintec really resists corrosion so if the cut edges are painted it will last indefinately.
Frank, I own a powder coating plant and some of our work is powder etched, green cured and then the powder topcoat is applied and baked, we have to warrant this work for at least 10 years and it will easily exceed this without any problems at all if it is properly applied. As with all forms of paint/powder/coating, if you break through the surface then corrosion will likely take hold though.

 

[Keith]

If you feel that an active corrosion prevention system is necessary Dinitrol is a fantastic product and there are many products in their range that will do the job. The British MOD specify Dinitrol protection for all their vehicles I believe and the test has to be immersion in sea water! I've used it on all my vehicles whether "factory protected" or not.

For GT40 style applications bare metal can be treated with Epoxy Mastic clear coat and the brown Cavity Wax 3125 would be the answer with the Black Chassis Wax 4941 for the underside and arches. This dries very hard and has a semi-sheen so looks pretty good too.

Having said that, there's little you can do in the UK when local authorities dump thousands of tons of salt on the road even in dry conditions as soon as the forecast temperature even approaches 38 deg Fahrenheit...

Here's a link to a UK distributor for much more info on the product...

Rust Preventon and Rust proofing products for automotive, marine and industrial applications

 

[Frank Catt]

Roy, I agree with your comments on well applied powder coating, as we know, so much is not done well and powder coating is often seen as a quick and simple solution. However, I have seen so much corrosion underneath good looking powder surfacing, particularly on aluminium, that it concerns me. As of interest, I would be interested to learn how you treat spot welded sheet joins with powder coating, my experiance when taking apart panels is that the powder do's not penetrate between the panels, and relies on a "seal" of powder held on the edge of the joint by the electrostatic action when applied. Zintec left out in my garden goes rusty in days, must be a much more corrosive atmosphere down here, Frank

 

Richard,
Have a look at Racing Icons . com web site. There are many pictures of the mono chassis you might fid useful.

 

[Richard]

I would like to thank all of you for your help. I have some “Heavy-Duty Anti Rust” coating material from Eastwood that sound like what you are all talking about (waxy/oily coating). Maybe someone can look to see if this is the same stuff. Contents: Alkylaryl Sulfonate, Mineral Spirits, Proprietary Rust Control Additive. If anyone thinks I should wait and pick up one of the Dinitrol products and which one would work best please let me know. The pictures of the cars under construction are simply amazing, true craftsmanship. It would be great to see them at some earlier states of construction but amazing just the same. I’m also hoping Hi-Tech comes in with some details as I’ve not heard anything yet.

Eastwood Co. - Heavy Duty Anti Rust 32oz

 

[Dave Wood]

As was suggested, since the SPF cars are built to the specs of the originals( with just minor deviations), it would seem that the original factory details would be the same. Probably only the material content in the metal is different, but all potential water traps should be the same.

 

some chassis pics

 

some more SPF chassis pics

 

[Richard]

Thanks Chris, great pictures hope you didn't have to kill anyone for them. Looks like I have way more work to do than I thought. There is one shot that almost shows the structure of the frame around the tube that the lower control arm runs throght. Guess I’ll drill a hole at the rear (just in front of the rear tire) and see how far forward I can see. Like I said in the post I really don’t want to play proctologist. Do all the ribs (not sure what else to call them) have holes through them the same shape as the outside perimeter of the part? Now if I could only get my halo deck fixed I could just walk around the part and have a look, lol. I’ll post pictures as I go. Might still need that endoscope.

 

Some original chassis pics

 

[Hi-Tech Auto]

Chris, Thank you for posting the pictures. Those were all of chassis #1. As you can see all the panelling is automotive grade "zintec". Before etchcoating and painting we also seamseal all joins. I also agree with Roy that the original bag tanks were a cause of most of the sill rusting. Our stainless tanks allow plenty of ventilation space inside the sills as well.I very much doubt that, with the type of use our customers put their cars to, corrosion will ever be a problem. That said, any extra protection cannot hurt.
kind regards Jim Price