Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
Porsche 917 Replica
- Thread starter Joe T
- Start date
Sorry if i come over a little harshly, but the recent article on being able to construct 40s at lower costs and the ill informed comments that i received both directly and on this forum, coupled with the undeserved critism when i showed the 917 at the Autosport Show from many who did not know the effort/circumstances involved just helps compound my cynicism regarding nitpicking and the regular rapid deviating from the original questions.
As i grow older time becomes more valuable, and i for one, cannot waste it.
I apologise if i came over too strong but i felt that Joe T was not receiving the answer or encouragement of reply that he needed.
Graham.
As i grow older time becomes more valuable, and i for one, cannot waste it.
I apologise if i came over too strong but i felt that Joe T was not receiving the answer or encouragement of reply that he needed.
Graham.
David Morton...you mentioned that a used 917 engine would run $100k. Are there any for sale? Could you direct me to a marketplace for used vintage race parts? I would appreciate any information.
I'd love to build something like this. The practicality of it all is what really has me on the fence. One day I will get one and street the car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
Cheers
I'd love to build something like this. The practicality of it all is what really has me on the fence. One day I will get one and street the car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
Cheers
I beg to differ but there are no complete 917 engines available for that price anymore......
A year or two ago ther may have been one or two but the prices I was quoted recently are nearer the 250k range for a usable piece.
A completly refurbished 5.4l engine and transaxle complete with fuel system and fan set up drop in ready to go can run as much as 500k......
I can give you that phone number if you would like it.....
A year or two ago ther may have been one or two but the prices I was quoted recently are nearer the 250k range for a usable piece.
A completly refurbished 5.4l engine and transaxle complete with fuel system and fan set up drop in ready to go can run as much as 500k......
I can give you that phone number if you would like it.....
Ron Earp
Admin
No doubt. Someone emailed me a lead on a 917 engine over a year ago that he wanted me to post here on the site. I told him to post it himself (not being rude, just not knowing why he could manage himself) but the price was $200k and it was missing some bits, I think cam covers if I am not mistaken and something else I cannot remember.
Howard Jones
Supporter
917 guy, Hell they are all hot rods to me and your 917 hot rod is especialy nice. I know what you mean about being a little thin skined at times, A guy just wants to build something he loves and breaks his back for years doing it and some guy, who doesn't know witch end of a screwdriver to open a beer with, comes along and starts talking about how the frigging ride height is off by a 1/2 inch.
Screw em !
Oh, and to the question at hand, search the web for "917 porche" There are a few of them out there that are streetable. Lots of variation in quality. Everything from a VW pan with new bodywork to the fine example you see here
That hot rod is really something to be proud of. Good work, don't let lazy wantabes pull you down. I tell them they can always build one their way if they don't like mine.
Screw em !
Oh, and to the question at hand, search the web for "917 porche" There are a few of them out there that are streetable. Lots of variation in quality. Everything from a VW pan with new bodywork to the fine example you see here
That hot rod is really something to be proud of. Good work, don't let lazy wantabes pull you down. I tell them they can always build one their way if they don't like mine.
Peter Delaney
GT40s Supporter
Graham, point taken - the diversion into what is a "replica" is not what was originally asked. However, there seems to be a depth of feeling about this subject, so perhaps Ron could lift the relevant posts into a new topic. There seems to be quite a lot of interest in this, and some very different rules in terms of who can compete in what class & where - a concensus of opinion from the "users" (rather than the bureaucrats) might be a worthwhile pursuit.
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
Peter,
A good idea. May i just say, so as not to vere from the original question too much, that i take my hat off to anyone who constructs a car "along the lines of the original design". Few of us can afford to purchase the original 40s or 917s,or be able to maintain them if they are to be used in anger.I,m not sure if Joe T has in-depth knowledge of 917s but they were "crude" in their finish, as were a majority of sports racing cars. The rough and tumble of racing meant that panel fit did not have to be perfect, paint was often thin and patchy, and ongoing developments by individuals/teams meant that no two cars were ever the same and that applies now.From race to race the same chassis could have different panels fitted, different decor and sponsors stickers, aerodynamic bolt-ons, etc, etc, etc. The list is endless. So i say congratulations to all constructors for you are all creating a little piece of "unique" history which is what you want your pride and joy to be. It is your interpretation.
Forgive me Joe T, i,e fallen into the trap and diversified somewhat but it is a minefield.
If you are serious about maybe building a 917 "type" car one day please be aware that although they evolved from a long line of Porsches they are fundamentally dangerous and my experience is that thousands of people have said to me "wow" and "i want one for road use", but when they sit in it or see just how vunerable their feet and legs are they soon have second thoughts. So although Tony and i are working on this SVA "passable?" version, although visually correct(based on two original Kurz versions) its chassis is going to HAVE to be different to comply. And does anyone know of road legal tyres that fit 15" diameter x 15" wide rims ?????? So bang goes the originality!! It is an impossible dilemma we face. Even to "race only" the cars means we still have to alter the specifications to comply to the ever increasing beaurocracy in this rapidly changing world......... I say build your cars and be content for nobody else will have a car JUST like yours................
Regards,
Graham.
A good idea. May i just say, so as not to vere from the original question too much, that i take my hat off to anyone who constructs a car "along the lines of the original design". Few of us can afford to purchase the original 40s or 917s,or be able to maintain them if they are to be used in anger.I,m not sure if Joe T has in-depth knowledge of 917s but they were "crude" in their finish, as were a majority of sports racing cars. The rough and tumble of racing meant that panel fit did not have to be perfect, paint was often thin and patchy, and ongoing developments by individuals/teams meant that no two cars were ever the same and that applies now.From race to race the same chassis could have different panels fitted, different decor and sponsors stickers, aerodynamic bolt-ons, etc, etc, etc. The list is endless. So i say congratulations to all constructors for you are all creating a little piece of "unique" history which is what you want your pride and joy to be. It is your interpretation.
Forgive me Joe T, i,e fallen into the trap and diversified somewhat but it is a minefield.
If you are serious about maybe building a 917 "type" car one day please be aware that although they evolved from a long line of Porsches they are fundamentally dangerous and my experience is that thousands of people have said to me "wow" and "i want one for road use", but when they sit in it or see just how vunerable their feet and legs are they soon have second thoughts. So although Tony and i are working on this SVA "passable?" version, although visually correct(based on two original Kurz versions) its chassis is going to HAVE to be different to comply. And does anyone know of road legal tyres that fit 15" diameter x 15" wide rims ?????? So bang goes the originality!! It is an impossible dilemma we face. Even to "race only" the cars means we still have to alter the specifications to comply to the ever increasing beaurocracy in this rapidly changing world......... I say build your cars and be content for nobody else will have a car JUST like yours................
Regards,
Graham.
What got me was seeing the 1970 Langheck at the Festival of Speed. With no roll cage and the bulkhead and every other part of the car being bare fiberglass. And seeing the flexing in the rear deck as it was lifted. Also hearing stories of earlier accidents (1969) not announced by Porsche. I've have said this before that I spoke to Mrs Piper about the book the 'French Kiss of Death' which has a picture of the car Mr Piper had his crash in. This shows the back section with the engine. She told me that Mr Piper was in the front section in another field. I assumed that later 917 were strengthened? Or is the weakness of the chassis breaking away at the back inherent in the design? I am all for 917's replica and real as long as this weakness has been eliminated; I do not like seeing anyone hurt!!!
Regards Allan
Regards Allan
Allan,
The only strengthening that was carried out on the chassis was at certain joints where cracking was prone due to flexing. It must be realised that these cars were, despite, their apparent flimsiness, remarkably accident free in their dominance of world sports car racing and the drivers were very aware and skillfull. Against all advice, John Wolfe, drove the early and still unsorted 917 long tail at LeMans in 1969, and was killed on the first lap.
His was the only fatality in a 917.
David Pipers accident was very different and his unfortunate loss of limb was due more to delay and medical treatment and as far as i know no other driver was ever hurt as bad.
The GT40 has a higher fatality rating and it is inherently a much stronger car. The 917 has its bulk weight at the rear in a very light weight frame and in any accident that type of set up will often see a break away scenario.
Despite its apparent frailty the 917 was a remarkably (with luck and hindsight) safe ballistic missile. Nobody wants to be hurt in racing but if you do participate in the sport you must accept the possible chance of it.When i destroyed the front and punched in the rear end of my 40 at Oulton Park at the end of May i walked away without a scratch after becoming nose airborne and going head first into the armco at 80mph. That same accident in the 917 would have seen me in Pipers situation possibly, or worse, but i accept the risk as do others.
I can assure you that to achieve an SVA passable 917 it has/will involve a huge amount of chassis alteration, but because of its overall design, will always be the most stunning looking but very vulnerable vehicle.
Regards,
Graham.
The only strengthening that was carried out on the chassis was at certain joints where cracking was prone due to flexing. It must be realised that these cars were, despite, their apparent flimsiness, remarkably accident free in their dominance of world sports car racing and the drivers were very aware and skillfull. Against all advice, John Wolfe, drove the early and still unsorted 917 long tail at LeMans in 1969, and was killed on the first lap.
His was the only fatality in a 917.
David Pipers accident was very different and his unfortunate loss of limb was due more to delay and medical treatment and as far as i know no other driver was ever hurt as bad.
The GT40 has a higher fatality rating and it is inherently a much stronger car. The 917 has its bulk weight at the rear in a very light weight frame and in any accident that type of set up will often see a break away scenario.
Despite its apparent frailty the 917 was a remarkably (with luck and hindsight) safe ballistic missile. Nobody wants to be hurt in racing but if you do participate in the sport you must accept the possible chance of it.When i destroyed the front and punched in the rear end of my 40 at Oulton Park at the end of May i walked away without a scratch after becoming nose airborne and going head first into the armco at 80mph. That same accident in the 917 would have seen me in Pipers situation possibly, or worse, but i accept the risk as do others.
I can assure you that to achieve an SVA passable 917 it has/will involve a huge amount of chassis alteration, but because of its overall design, will always be the most stunning looking but very vulnerable vehicle.
Regards,
Graham.
Dear Mr.Turner:
I am interested in learning more about the new 917 that you referenced above. I must confess straightaway that I am a dreamer and a tyre kicker :embarassed: :uhoh: but what is sincere is my interest in learning about the accuracy and details of the project...if I may. I understand and respect that your time is valuable and that I am interested in learning more about this project more as a value of learning and knowledge.
If my request in worthy of entertaining, :anxious: please contact me with just a link to pictures in the very least through my direct email:
[email protected]
I thank you in advance for your assistance and indulgance. :2thumbsup:
Sincerely,
Very new member to the forum, Charles B.