SLC on Auction in Monterey

Steve

Supporter
I can't speak for Damian but I think he's making a general point and, in this case, the original post you made is another example.

Since Ben's sticky has only 20 or so owners on it and the highest chassis number I've seen is #53 (Fran would have to clue us in how many have been built to date) it's safe to say the resale market on the SLC has yet to be established to any degree. It's a pretty new car. That being said, there is no evidence that would point to the resale market being different vs GT40's or other similar examples.

That being said, it is a kick-ass car and I sure want one, although an E-type Jag is calling my name 1st.......

Steve
 

Dave Lindemann

Lifetime Supporter
Steve -

Have you "driven" an E-type? No question they are GORGEOUS cars....but, unless they've been updated you may be disappointed in the cornering, braking, steering....you get my drift. Compared to a modern high performance car they are a few decades behind. Don't get me wrong - I LOVE E-types - just say-in ;-)

Dave L
 
Does anyone know where Tim got the CF center console/dash/door liners/ etc from?

They are standard pieces- with a hydrocarbon finish. The seats are Tilletts with a real CF layer (over a FG base).

It's odd to see the juxtaposition of real CF with the fake variant.
 

Steve

Supporter
Dave,

Ohh you are so right about the E-type. It was something in it's day but pales by todays standards. Just want it for its beauty and always loved 'em as a kid. They definitely need pampering (and money) and are for gentle cruising on a sunny day only. It will, however, appreciate over the years, which is why I'm buying it first. In several years, could be out of my comfort zone price-wise. After the E-type, SLC will be next. Already have the engine.

BTW, I think we have a mutual friend in Glenn C (former Lotus Europa owner). He's a partner of mine.
 

Dave Lindemann

Lifetime Supporter
Dave,

Ohh you are so right about the E-type. It was something in it's day but pales by todays standards. Just want it for its beauty and always loved 'em as a kid. They definitely need pampering (and money) and are for gentle cruising on a sunny day only. It will, however, appreciate over the years, which is why I'm buying it first. In several years, could be out of my comfort zone price-wise. After the E-type, SLC will be next. Already have the engine.

BTW, I think we have a mutual friend in Glenn C (former Lotus Europa owner). He's a partner of mine.

Sorry for the thread drift folks....

Steve - If I had more space, time.....money - you know the story - I'd have an early E-type....and a Pantera....and an early Countach...and a Ghibli - you get the idea ;-). The E-type will always be a keeper - enjoy. And yes, I know Glenn - his Europa is now cared for by another friend of mine. If you haven't seen a SLC close-up and would like to just let me know, I'm in Scandia.

Dave L
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
I can't speak for Damian but I think he's making a general point and, in this case, the original post you made is another example.

What I'm trying to get Damian to do is justify his rather insulting remark about "typical owners" (so that's either most SLC owners or most GT40 owners or both, groups which I have found to be remarkably intelligent and sophisticated). He seems to be strangely silent while he continues to treat the rest of us like we're idiots with respect to our car's value.

IAE, Steve, the post I made is the ONLY example, not "another" example. So one guy offers an SLC at an unlikeley price and suddenly Damian thinks "we are having the typical owner who THINKS his car is worth more than the rest of the world". It's a completely unjustified and unjustifiable statement.

There are so many holes in his reasoning process it would bore the rest of us to tears to fill them, but I'm still left wondering why Damian is so insistent and agressive in repeating it over a two year span in multiple threads.
 
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Well, if one was looking to buy a completed used SLC they'd -- maybe -- be trying to knock the prices down on every advert and telling everybody they were crazy on their pricing :laugh: . Hell what do I know - I flunked economics.
 
Sorry for taking so long to get back here but I do have a life outside of here. Now I was talking about the general worth of the SL-C in the secondary market. For a standard to LIGHTLY modified SL-C the real world MIGHT pay SLIGHTLY more than I suggested. Regardless if the cars sold or not the E-Bay auctions proved that.
Now as to comment about the SL-C and kit car owners in general NO WHERE DID I CALL THEM STUPID OR UNINTELLIGENT OR ANYTHING SIMILAR. Mildly delusional as to the value of their cars YES but nothing calling their intelligence into question. Look at it like this a person (and again I find myself repeating from the OLD THREAD WHERE THE SAME DARN THING HAPPENED) selling his house ALWAYS thinks it's worth more than the market thinks it is or is willing to pay.
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
Mildly delusional as to the value of their cars YES but nothing calling their intelligence into question. Look at it like this a person (and again I find myself repeating from the OLD THREAD WHERE THE SAME DARN THING HAPPENED) selling his house ALWAYS thinks it's worth more than the market thinks it is or is willing to pay.

ALWAYS?. I just sold a house in Southern California for more than my asking price AND more than I or my agent thought it was worth (and those are two different things). Why do you insist on making obviously unsupportable generalizations about people you don't know?

So, according to Damian we're not stupid, we're just mildly delusional. And that's a more defensible and less insulting thing to say?

Henry -- don't just say "stop beating a dead horse". Say it six times. Welcome to the horse beaters club.
 
Alan: Please forgive me if this is straying from your original post, and mods, please feel free to delete this response if you deem it to be so.

If I:

Bought a kit for $50,000.00.
Spent, lets say....300 hours building it to a very respectable level.

~Then I put 500....2500....5000.... miles on the odometer, how do you determine what the cars value is?

~How do you determine the market value for a vehicle that is in such limited numbers (like the SL-C)?

~How do you determine what the depreciation is, or should be?
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
If I:

Bought a kit for $50,000.00.
Spent, lets say....300 hours building it to a very respectable level.

~Then I put 500....2500....5000.... miles on the odometer, how do you determine what the cars value is?

~How do you determine the market value for a vehicle that is in such limited numbers (like the SL-C)?

~How do you determine what the depreciation is, or should be?

Good question and on topic... I don't know, and I don't think anyone else does either, despite their claims to the contrary. Some of us with recent purchase experience took a stab at it by tracking sales in a GT40 thread a while ago, where it is perhaps reasonable since there are hundreds of them. But I think mostly we arrived a ceilings for values, not values.

If I had that problem I would try to pack the statistics by looking at more common analogous kit cars (Cobras, for example) and collect as much sales data as I could. Then with knowledge of build costs, normalize them all and make scatter diagram of parts cost vs sale price, mileage vs. sales price, etc. Maybe, just maybe, you would see some meaningful clusters or lines. My intuition is that "depreciation" per se does not factor in much. As long as it isn't really old and has low (< 10K) miles, I suspect those issues have no effect. And I'm pretty sure your labor hours have no effect. So I think the fundamental question is, "what fraction of parts cost will I get?" and you should probably assume it's lower than 75% or else you're in for either a big disappointment or a long wait. But at least you might arrive at a price that no one, with any justification, will laugh at and that serious buyers will consider.

But any even superficial understanding of economics would suggest one simply can't with significant reliability given the small population, market size and large product variation of SLCs. I think this was the point Will Campbell and a few others have made up above. This renders concepts like "base value" useless because individual sales are strongly situational with respect to buyer, product and seller; the sample space is effectively "one" and we are no longer in a "statistical" context.

Another thing to remember, and this does apply to the "topic" car, is that simply because somebody places an object on the market at an apparently inflated price does not mean they think it has that value. They may have some other motive, for example, just hoping to catch the odd marginal buyer who is not trying to buy "at market" (impulse buy, or super-rich and doesn't give a damn). So referring to that seller (or any other) as "delusional" is at best a silly exercise in long-distance mind reading. Instead, it might be simply brilliant salesmanship because in the odd case where the sale takes place that seller is far more economically successful than various posters on this forum encumbered by the idea of applying pseudo-economics to micro-markets. Not every seller is under any time pressure to sell, and it's important not to project that onto them.

Using my recent real-estate buying and selling experience I can confidently assert that in both my markets there were several examples that were just sitting at an "above market" price simply because it cost nothing to do so and there is a non-zero probability that someone will come along who just has to have that house. And when one of those sales succeeds, that seller is certainly not "deluded". But now he is wealthy. So be careful whom you laugh at.
 
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