Someone flew a small plane into the IRS bldg in Austin, TX.
- Thread starter Conquest351
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I don't recall the constitution starting with WE THE SHEEPLE. Certainly he had enough of whatever the IRS was doing to him and his family. I don't know if I would have done things quite the way he did, but, he has gotten alot of people talking.
Remember a few years back, the slogan of the New IRS, gentler and friendler? Hummmm
Remember a few years back, the slogan of the New IRS, gentler and friendler? Hummmm
Very noble but I missed the bit about leaving your wife and 12 year old daughter in a burning building and then flying a fully gassed up plane into a building with hundreds of employees in it.
Perhaps M. Stack will meet up with M. Atta in heaven where they can share some virgins together, after all they have much in common - attacking the Us Federal Government in the same manner, and pretty much with the same convictions and aims.
OK, I made my point - I just have a different take on it that's all.
Ain't democracy grand?
I still love you all.... :heart:
several years ago a farmer in the UK had a run in with his local government office over something. The English way however was to go along with his muck spreader and spray the offices of said government in protest (or should that be in manure). No one got hurt but he did get national coverage and certainly made his point. I sympathise with anyone who reaches the end of their tether and does not know what course of action to take, shame that he did not have a less destructive alternative available to him.
Brian Hamilton
I'm on the verge of touching myself inappropriatel
LOL Keith.
I understand both sides of the argument. It was selfish as he did hurt other people. How was this different than the attacks against us on 9-11? He is/was a terrorist. All this I understand. And it's all true. You're right, it was a selfish, terrorist act. I'm not going to argue that point at all. People were hurt and at least one killed. That's absolutely horrible and I feel for their families. I also feel for this man's family as they no longer have the Husband/Father they left that morning.
I do understand that it seems crazy and extreme, because it is. I ALSO understand the point the man was trying to make. That's all I'm really trying to say, I'm not 100% condoning his actions, but I do believe what he's saying and what he sacrificed his life for. Radical times call for radical measures.
I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about people calling me crazy for believing in this guy, because I know that it was a crazy act. It was a terrible act. I know. But, I do also condone the guy for bringing attention to his plight. Is that how you spell that word?
OK, flame away everyone. LOL
Brian
I understand both sides of the argument. It was selfish as he did hurt other people. How was this different than the attacks against us on 9-11? He is/was a terrorist. All this I understand. And it's all true. You're right, it was a selfish, terrorist act. I'm not going to argue that point at all. People were hurt and at least one killed. That's absolutely horrible and I feel for their families. I also feel for this man's family as they no longer have the Husband/Father they left that morning.
I do understand that it seems crazy and extreme, because it is. I ALSO understand the point the man was trying to make. That's all I'm really trying to say, I'm not 100% condoning his actions, but I do believe what he's saying and what he sacrificed his life for. Radical times call for radical measures.
I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about people calling me crazy for believing in this guy, because I know that it was a crazy act. It was a terrible act. I know. But, I do also condone the guy for bringing attention to his plight. Is that how you spell that word?
OK, flame away everyone. LOL
Brian
Oh I am not trying to make the guy a marter. I think that his disregard for the life of his family and human life as a whole is unconscionable. If he had done it when the building was empty and never endangered his family now that would be a horse of a different color. I'm just saying that while we all sit here and complain (in general) this guy actually did something. Now he did pay the highest price for something that he believed but he still did something (although he could have of expressed himself without the taking of human life).
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Kieth,
The local paper has cleared up the part about burning his house down. The family was not in the house at the time. They drove up in a mini-van and saw the fire department putting out the fires. So on that point, he was not stupid and did not endanger his family. As for flying a plane into a building, not so good. The better course of action would have been to go public and he might have gotten 1 minute of TV time. Or may shoot the IRS agent as they left the building?!! (Just kidding)
The shame of all of this is what it will do to civil aviation. The typical response of government is not to address the issues that led his course of action, but to further restrict rights of citizens to freely travel, or arm themselves, or any number of rights that we all fought for and continue to fight for.
Does anybody think that the IRS will undergo a review of their procedures?
Just as a bit of information, the heinous tax laws that were created in 1986 taxing professionals, led to a condition that professional engineers, computer programmers, etc., could not become independent contractors without tax penalties that were prohibitive and punitive. This was designed to reap new tax revenue for the US. The tax was a failure as it provided tax benefits in the billions for large corporations but denied start-ups a chance to compete on the same playing field, thereby reducing competition. The author of the bill tried unsuccessfully to repeal the measure a year later, only to have the repeal die in committtee. The Obama Administration is hoping to use this same bill to tax independent contractors $7billion to help with our deficit. All the while spending billions of dollars propping up banks and large corporate employers as a solution to our employment problems.
And you wonder why some people go mad!!
Garry
The local paper has cleared up the part about burning his house down. The family was not in the house at the time. They drove up in a mini-van and saw the fire department putting out the fires. So on that point, he was not stupid and did not endanger his family. As for flying a plane into a building, not so good. The better course of action would have been to go public and he might have gotten 1 minute of TV time. Or may shoot the IRS agent as they left the building?!! (Just kidding)
The shame of all of this is what it will do to civil aviation. The typical response of government is not to address the issues that led his course of action, but to further restrict rights of citizens to freely travel, or arm themselves, or any number of rights that we all fought for and continue to fight for.
Does anybody think that the IRS will undergo a review of their procedures?
Just as a bit of information, the heinous tax laws that were created in 1986 taxing professionals, led to a condition that professional engineers, computer programmers, etc., could not become independent contractors without tax penalties that were prohibitive and punitive. This was designed to reap new tax revenue for the US. The tax was a failure as it provided tax benefits in the billions for large corporations but denied start-ups a chance to compete on the same playing field, thereby reducing competition. The author of the bill tried unsuccessfully to repeal the measure a year later, only to have the repeal die in committtee. The Obama Administration is hoping to use this same bill to tax independent contractors $7billion to help with our deficit. All the while spending billions of dollars propping up banks and large corporate employers as a solution to our employment problems.
And you wonder why some people go mad!!
Garry
Keith, whether you support, justify, approve, or whatever...doesn't make him wrong. Doing the right thing isn't about popularity. It's about demonstrating the value of a principal. Patriotism IS terrorism/treason to the Government. It is only after WINNING, that the Patriot becomes the Hero. If he LOSES, he is known as a criminal or worse. It's always easier to join the winning side once you are sure you know who will win. But that makes you one of the second-handers with no skin in the game. Not someone I want on my team at all.
And I don't feel sorry for the "helpless victims" who were just "doing their job" for the IRS, a Government Agency. These were ALL adults who were well aware and well-versed in what they were doing. These people WERE foot-troops for the IRS. What next? Sympathy for Nazi troops? They weren't Hitler, so they weren't all bad? They knew exactly what they were doing. I think you're just upset that it wasn't the IRS who drew first blood.
And I don't feel sorry for the "helpless victims" who were just "doing their job" for the IRS, a Government Agency. These were ALL adults who were well aware and well-versed in what they were doing. These people WERE foot-troops for the IRS. What next? Sympathy for Nazi troops? They weren't Hitler, so they weren't all bad? They knew exactly what they were doing. I think you're just upset that it wasn't the IRS who drew first blood.
Garry, I've had my run-ins with the IRS and I have just one thing to say--you are WAAAAY too kind in your descriptions of the IRS. I'd start my descriptions with something akin to: "They are bloodsucking 'corksuckers'..."
I can't think of a single instance in which one is so totally at the mercy of an institution that has such a vested interest in seeing that you fail in your appeal....so much for "unprejudiced" justice.
Garry, thank you so much for clearing that up for me. I am very relieved that they (his family) weren't victims of his tragedy.
Everyone else - I sense that there is quite a different take on things from a US perspective from my own (not necessarily representative from others in the UK) so it's quite useless and counter productive of me to continue my premise and I wish you all the best of luck with your battles with Uncle Sam.
I would however remark on ChrisH's post because said farmer in question really did get a lot more TV and ink coverage than your man in the plane ever will and no-one was ever harmed, just mightily embarassed.
Which begs the question why he did not simply kidnap the Bureau Chief and hold him to ransom for a few weeks?
Not only guaranteed media deluge but several weeks of coverage and negotiation too. If two dysfunctional idiots can "send" their kid up in a hot air balloon just for self publcity, then surely this guy could have used the same mechanism for even greater effect? Would he not have become a real (live) national hero able to witness the positive results of his action?
Enough already. It's been an interesting debate and I really have nothing further to add...
Everyone else - I sense that there is quite a different take on things from a US perspective from my own (not necessarily representative from others in the UK) so it's quite useless and counter productive of me to continue my premise and I wish you all the best of luck with your battles with Uncle Sam.
I would however remark on ChrisH's post because said farmer in question really did get a lot more TV and ink coverage than your man in the plane ever will and no-one was ever harmed, just mightily embarassed.
Which begs the question why he did not simply kidnap the Bureau Chief and hold him to ransom for a few weeks?
Not only guaranteed media deluge but several weeks of coverage and negotiation too. If two dysfunctional idiots can "send" their kid up in a hot air balloon just for self publcity, then surely this guy could have used the same mechanism for even greater effect? Would he not have become a real (live) national hero able to witness the positive results of his action?
Enough already. It's been an interesting debate and I really have nothing further to add...
Brian Hamilton
I'm on the verge of touching myself inappropriatel
Keith,
I have no hard feelings toward you or anyone who doesn't sympathize with what's going on over here. No biggy. I still like ya! LOL I've always tried, in my life, to see all points of view on pretty much any subject. This helps me clearly make a decision which I think and believe is right.
As for your idea of kidnapping the Bureau Chief, I'm pretty sure the APD (Austin Police Department) SWAT Team or the FBI would take him out pretty quickly. Again, same result I believe, but this being said, no one else would have died and millions of dollars worth of damage wouldn't have been done.
Isn't that the point though? I don't know that he really honestly wanted to kill hundreds of people, but he did want to cost the IRS and government lots of money. Again, I can't go ask him about his intentions. He just wanted to stick it to the man.
I also agree that this story will disappear pretty quickly as opposed to balloon boy or any other extremely stupid and pointless story that seems to catch national headlines for months at a time. Again, take a look at our country's mental outlook and you'll realize why such stupid things catch the general public's attention. For Christ sake, we watch Survivor! We put people in remote locations where other people live and make them survive without phones, internet, and food given to them. And we all talk about how horrible it would be to stay there for 60-90 days. LOL How stupid! We watch shows about spoiled rotten rich housewives in California and New York. We watch shows about spoiled rotten celebrity children too.
All this contributes to the dumbing down of America, and it's working soooo well. No longer are kids trying hard at school to get good grades, they're fine being dumb and cool. Why? Because being dumb and funny is cool now. I'm ranting, again... Sorry.
Laters,
Brian
I have no hard feelings toward you or anyone who doesn't sympathize with what's going on over here. No biggy. I still like ya! LOL I've always tried, in my life, to see all points of view on pretty much any subject. This helps me clearly make a decision which I think and believe is right.
As for your idea of kidnapping the Bureau Chief, I'm pretty sure the APD (Austin Police Department) SWAT Team or the FBI would take him out pretty quickly. Again, same result I believe, but this being said, no one else would have died and millions of dollars worth of damage wouldn't have been done.
Isn't that the point though? I don't know that he really honestly wanted to kill hundreds of people, but he did want to cost the IRS and government lots of money. Again, I can't go ask him about his intentions. He just wanted to stick it to the man.
I also agree that this story will disappear pretty quickly as opposed to balloon boy or any other extremely stupid and pointless story that seems to catch national headlines for months at a time. Again, take a look at our country's mental outlook and you'll realize why such stupid things catch the general public's attention. For Christ sake, we watch Survivor! We put people in remote locations where other people live and make them survive without phones, internet, and food given to them. And we all talk about how horrible it would be to stay there for 60-90 days. LOL How stupid! We watch shows about spoiled rotten rich housewives in California and New York. We watch shows about spoiled rotten celebrity children too.
All this contributes to the dumbing down of America, and it's working soooo well. No longer are kids trying hard at school to get good grades, they're fine being dumb and cool. Why? Because being dumb and funny is cool now. I'm ranting, again... Sorry.
Laters,
Brian
