Southern GT #28

Wow lots of effort into that diagram...

Essentially yes sounds like what I did, nice and snug, just adjusted the spacers with washers or clearancing them as required, don’t forget they are hand made chassis and there will be variances between each of them.
A good pull on the ratchet will ensure it i’ll be snug fit.

Those nuts (lack of protrusion) will fail IVA as they are so you may need to swap the bolts for longer or use half nuts.

regards
Thanks Paul @ Michel.

I haven't tightened the nuts up on the bolt yet, so I hope that the bolt is long enough to allow me to demonstrate at least the minimum protrusion.

Thank you for the support guys. I have a printed out copy of the IVA booklet (bible) and can see how easy it can be to inadvertently do something that could cause a problem. Much appreciated.
 
I had an E7TE block. If you do the IVA test the emissions will be determined by the age of the block which is 1987. As you are in Yorkshire you are not too far from EDA in Castleford who have been building american V8 engines for many years. They did the prep and machining work on my E7TE block including notching for 347 crank etc.. They also prep some original race 289s as well as drag race motors. Good guys - know their stuff.
Cheers
Mike
It's a small world.

I befriended a group of car nuts a few years ago, and one of my friends in the group has also recommended EDA. I will be contacting them shortly.
 

Mike Pass

Supporter
Yes they are good guys who have been around for a long time.Kenny might talk you to death but he knows just about everything. I have quite a bit of info that would be useful to you but is too much to post on here. I have sent you a message with my contact details. See the envelope symbol at the top right when logged in.
There is another SGT builder in Yorkshire but I don't know how far away from you. I don't think he comes on this forum.
Cheers
Mike
 
Hi Hamish,

I am the other guy building a Southern GT in Yorkshire, and I am based in York. Pleased to see you if you want a look once we are out of lockdown. Drop me a note sometime, I am almost ready to go to IVA, but things are in flux at present as it looks as thought the test centres are closed. I have been writing about my build in the Fortification Magazine, sometimes it‘s one forward and two back but progress is being made.

Don.
 
Hi Hamish,

I am the other guy building a Southern GT in Yorkshire, and I am based in York. Pleased to see you if you want a look once we are out of lockdown. Drop me a note sometime, I am almost ready to go to IVA, but things are in flux at present as it looks as thought the test centres are closed. I have been writing about my build in the Fortification Magazine, sometimes it‘s one forward and two back but progress is being made.

Don.

Brilliant. Nice to meet you Don. Very excited to meet up and investigate your Southern GT40 when we are aloud out!

Having someone who is so far ahead of me that has the same kit would be very useful. Looking forward to meet you. I live in Knaresborough, so easy to get to York.

H
 
Small update on the build diary. Like many, I am sure the first few weeks is getting the right tools and right set up in the garage.

I found I could not see the car properly due to the single light bulb I had. So, found a 4000 lumen LED strip light, and spent half of last Sunday wiring it up. Now I can actually see, it's a car!

Also taken receipt of a air rivet gun, an air compressor, numerous files and a hand saw.

I've also been doing loads of research on products and going through the boxes of stuff to see what order of work I need to plan. Products I am looking at include:

For wrapping the inside of the tunnel - https://www.thermotec.com/products/heat-shields-and-protection/kevlar-aramid-heat-barrier
For the inside of the cabin - https://www.thermotec.com/products/sound-and-heat-barriers/cool-it-mat

Painting the inside of the aluminium panels in the engine bay - https://www.frost.co.uk/frost-high-temp-black-matt-500ml
Painting the inside of the aluminium panels in the cabin and the front section - not sure yet. Some state they aid protection of water ingress and rust
Painting the aluminium panels on the underside of the car and wheel arches - not sure yet. Can't seem to find a really good review that does a good job of protecting against water ingress, salt, chipping.

Any one had any experience of the products above, or really good recommendations where I haven't chosen a product yet?
 

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Neil

Supporter
Copied from previous post about paint:

Instead of a 2k spray can epoxy primer use a good two-part epoxy primer and a $9.99 (on sale) spray gun from Harbor Freight. After use, clean it or throw it away. The 2k spray cans work well but when you are going to cover anything but a small area they are not economical. Do not forget to prepare the aluminum panels by lightly scuffing them with Scotch-Brite pads, wiping them with a solvent such as MEK, acetone, or denatured alcohol, and then wiping them with a phosphoric acid etch and then rinse well with clean water. Handle the panels with nitrile or vinyl gloves to prevent transferring oils from your fingerprints on to the clean panels and then spray on the primer after the panels are totally dry. Having all panels prepared and ready to paint helps things go quicker.

I used, and recommend the 2-part epoxy primer from Aircraft Spruce made by PTI Specialty Paint & Coatings, gallon yellow: p/n 09-00932 and gallon green: p/n 09-00933. These are for a "kit" that includes both components, resin and primer. Not everyone likes the look but, to me the green or yellow finish together with well spaced rivet patterns adds a bit of aircraft panache to the car.

If you order something from Aircraft Spruce make sure you request their free catalog. 1000+ pages of goodies!


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Small update.

Now it's been a little warmer I have started pottering in the garage. I continue the panel work. Bought a new set of colbolt drill bits (my God Mike, impressed with the toughness of the chasis, not easy drilling holes in it.)

Anyway , started on the inner panel on the passenger side.

After research have decided to use 3M 5200 Marine Sealant as the adhesive after watching numerous YouTube tests of it compared to others, and the 3M 08984 Adhesive Cleaner to give it a good clean surface to bond to.

Think I will get some Turbo Metal HSS drill bits and see if they drill better through this amazing chassis.

As the base panel isn't on yet I am keeping my eye out for a cheap second hand rollover jig. Useful for painting the base to. Saw one the other day for £100, but didnt get it.
 

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Shaun

Supporter
Hi Hamish
If its drill for rivets I used the Milwaukee Hex Shank bits in packs of 2 they eat steel

1616712778436.png


I did get a set of Milwaukee HSS drills but they were pretty rank, just caught the whole time and spun in the chuck, not as bad mind as the DeWalt ones they were true shockers.

Also the best ever tool (I am a Makita man through and through) is this little chap, its great for small spaces and drills rivets all day long, lifetime guarantee as well.

1616712641611.png


Good luck with the build, just doing the body on mine!!
Cheers
 

Neil

Supporter
These are specially ground to drill rivet holes in aluminum. Use a high speed drill & a drop of kerosene on aluminum. The shank is threaded 1/4-28 so a countersink can also be used. Drilling mild steel takes a different drill angle and a lubricant such as Tap-Free. A slower drill speed is needed; for stainless, use an even slower speed and a heavy pressure.
 

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Three new cheap tools that I can thoroughly recommend. A wolf craft 90 degree measure. Makes measuring holes a lot easier. A drill guide for stopping drill bits wondering. And Ruwag Turbo Metal drill bits. With a bit of oil on the end, drills through steel really easy.
 
Hi Hamish,

I am the other guy building a Southern GT in Yorkshire, and I am based in York. Pleased to see you if you want a look once we are out of lockdown. Drop me a note sometime, I am almost ready to go to IVA, but things are in flux at present as it looks as thought the test centres are closed. I have been writing about my build in the Fortification Magazine, sometimes it‘s one forward and two back but progress is being made.

Don.
Hi Don,

Are you taking visitors over the next few weeks. Would love to come over, meet you and bring a tape measure to inspect where you have put things! Saturday or Sunday afternoons work best for me. H
 
Productive 2 hours on this rainy Saturday afternoon. Finished drilling all the holes in two panels and chasis. Ready for sealing and riveting at the next session.
20210515_175602.jpg
 

Neil

Supporter
Hamish;

Here is some information that is from a US Navy maintenance manual regarding rivet spacing:

RIVET SPACING.—Rivet spacing (pitch) depends upon several factors, principally the thickness of the sheet, the diameter of the rivets, and the manner in which the sheet will be stressed. Rivet spacing should never be less than three times the rivet diameter. Spacing is seldom less than four times the diameter nor more than eight times the diameter.

You may need to put in more rivets to reduce the spacing to less than 8 times the rivet diameter.
 
Got an extra hour in the garage this afternoon. I wanted to kick start the new air compressor with the rivet gun. Never used either before. Had to admit, I was a little nervous starting the compressor for the first time. I got an SGS 24 litre direct drive.

Connected the hoses and all worked well with my test. Learnt one thing. Dont over fill with compressor oil, or it starts spitting oil out through the bung!

So, I have 2 questions this afternoon for experienced gt40 builders.

1. What have been the typical distance you have put between your rivets on a panel (based on the post Niel has posted above). Currently mine are 7cm apart.
2. What are the best rivets people have found to use. Hardness, metal reaction. Etc?
 

Shaun

Supporter
I went a bit over the top, sort of got the aircraft rivet look but I am running (for now) a non carpet stripped out look, I can check my spacing but for sure I know it ain't coming out, also its not structural per se so does not really matter I think re strength, or maybe others will, differ in thought??
 

Neil

Supporter
Hamish, here is my 2 cents worth based on what I've learned over a very long time:

Rivet spacing will depend on the application as well as the "rules". If you are using 1/8" blind rivets (assumed since you have black Cleco fasteners), the spacing could be as close as 1/2" in high stress areas while a relatively low stress panel could be 1" to 1.5". That is a lot of rivets but distributing the stress over a wide area is what makes the joint strong. Even low stress panels need enough rivets to keep it lying flat against its rear tubing support. Look at how most airplanes are built- lightweight but strong and fatigue resistant. Lots & lots of rivets.

The prevailing rule of thumb says that a 1/8" rivet is OK for panels up to 1/8" thick. Most automotive applications are in this range.

Regarding types of rivets, there are two main types, solid rivets and blind rivets. Solid rivets are cheap but require access to the backside of a joint so that a bucking bar can be used to bulge the rivet into place. Obviously a solid rivet can't be used to fasten a sheet metal panel to a tube so we use the second type of rivet- the blind rivet. This requires access only to the front. There are many factors to consider when selecting blind rivets. Assuming you've already decided on the rivet diameter, the next consideration is the grip length. This is the total thickness of the material that the rivet will pull together: the sheet metal thickness + the tube wall thickness. Countersunk (flush head) types are used to achieve low aerodynamic drag or to present a smooth surface but the "universal head" type is by far the most common type.

Rivet material will determine its shear strength (usually more important than tensile strength) and corrosion properties. Aluminum (5056) body blind rivets are the most common types encountered. The stem material varies. Other rivet body materials are available- Inconel, Monel & A256, are higher strength alternatives. The type of construction will pretty much determine its cost and its fatigue properties. Structural rivets are usually designed to retain the pin stem within the rivet body after it breaks off. The retained stem greatly increases its shear strength and is resistant to vibration. "Hardware store" (Pop) rivets do not positively retain the stem so they eventually wind up being only a hollow tube, offering only low strength and a path for moisture to enter the structure. Not good.

OK, Pop rivets aren't good but aircraft structural blind rivets are hideously expensive (some even require special installation tools), so what do we do? Well, there are a few choices. Easiest is to use AVEX blind rivets. These are "semi-structural" aluminum body rivets with a steel stem, having a very wide grip range, and are installed with ordinary tools. Fortunately, they are inexpensive in decent quantities. Far more expensive (around $1 each) are rivets such as CherryLOCK and CherryMAX as well as equivalent ones from Huck, AllFast, etc. Buying these new are out of the question for most of us but there are sources (eBay, etc) for surplus stock that can be very reasonable if one shops carefully. It helps to become familiar with various part numbers so that you can weed out the stuff you can't use. Avoid rivets that require expensive installation tools.

Also consider the type of sheet metal you use for your panels. Aluminum is the most common, of course but there are a variety of alloys to choose from. All are almost identical in weight so the choice devolves mainly to shear strength, workability, and corrosion resistance. Weldability is usually not a factor but it could be. The highest strength aluminum alloys are 7075-T6, 2024-T3, & 6061-T6. Corrosion resistance and workability is usually in reverse order- 7075-T6 is really strong but it corrodes more quickly and it is extremely difficult to bend. Two alloys offer all-around good properties: 6061-T6 and 5052-H32. I chose 7075-T6 for the stressed bottom panel on my chassis (not a GT40) but I live in southern Arizona in the desert where the humidity is very low (it was 8% yesterday) and I protected the sheet and tube with a 2-part epoxy zinc chromate primer with a silicone sealant. If you live in a high humidity climate something like a 5052 alloy may be a better choice. Really soft alloys can be used but you will get no or little strength benefit from the panel- it will be strictly cosmetic or to keep the wind and dirt out. Why not take advantage of a stronger alloy and good rivets?

Rant over. :rolleyes:
 

Morten

Mortified GT
Supporter
Hi, I used 4mm blind rivets, sikaflex, 50mm spacing. Rivets bought in bulk on ebay, some 3500 rivets plus used, and 3 air rivetguns used for my two SGT40s. If the allysheets add any strenght or not, they sure are a pain to remove, so plan ahead and leave a few out to gain access in the build phase.

Build it your way mate. Its learning by doing and redoing mostly:)

In hindsight I wish I’d used 3.2mm rivets and shorter spacing...,

Good luck
Keep on building mate:)
Morten
 

Shaun

Supporter
Hi, I used 4mm blind rivets, sikaflex, 50mm spacing. Rivets bought in bulk on ebay, some 3500 rivets plus used, and 3 air rivetguns used for my two SGT40s. If the allysheets add any strenght or not, they sure are a pain to remove, so plan ahead and leave a few out to gain access in the build phase.

Build it your way mate. Its learning by doing and redoing mostly:)

In hindsight I wish I’d used 3.2mm rivets and shorter spacing...,

Good luck
Keep on building mate:)
Morten
I'm with you on the leaving out part Morten, if only I had left a few Cleco'd up by heck pipe fitting would have been easier !!
 
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