Southern GT Chassis #54 Build - The What Have I Done Chronicles!!

Never found out, Mick at SGT said it is possible but was not easy, Paul Bav may know he did his not so long ago, just to me seemed easier to fit and get all sorted before the screen, etc is bonded in, the only reason not to is if you swap a lot post IVA but many do that by just changing the cover trims with the new non IVA switches
The dash is removable but it’s a bit of a pain in the arse! I need to replace an LED lamp on my dash but will be doing it laying on my back with the dash lent forward, if your cables are longer than mine you may find it easier...
 

Shaun

Supporter
And you can bet your bottom dollar that if like me you squeeze under the dash you will look up and see the spanner you need on the bench, did that a few times even now !!
My wiring all done now, wiper motor parks like a dream, sort the dash trims out and then send for covering
 

Neil

Supporter
Paul, I've run into that same problem. Working on your back under the dash to fix something is not easy! When I built my car I made the instrument panel and the switch/circuit breaker panel easily removable to gain easy access to the rear of each. The instrument panel is mounted on aircraft shock mounts with screws and the switch/circuit breaker is removed by four captive thumb screws.
It really helps to have a fold-down panel for your gauges & switches.
 

Attachments

Shaun

Supporter
Quick question chaps
Rear fog only comes on with dip beam correct?
If so my wiring is back to front as mine only come on with full beam, its as per the wiring diagram colour coding (which is frankly not great) so possibly a simple transposition of full and dip
Cheers
 

Eddy McClements

Supporter
From the manual:-

Rear fog lamps;
1. They must be operational
2. The correct number must be fitted to the vehicle (Table 1)
3. They must only emit a red light
4. The rear fog lamp(s) must only illuminate when dipped beam, main beam or front
fog lamps are lit
(see alternatives in Notes 3 and 4).
5. They must be positioned correctly to meet
a) the positional requirements of Table 1
b) the angles of visibility requirements of Table 1
6. Must be fitted with an operational “tell-tale” lamp (non-flashing) visible from the
driving position
7. Either the switch or tell tale must clearly indicate that operation relates to the
Rear Fog lights (see Note 1).
8. Must not be operated by a brake control
9. Fitted so that the reflector is facing squarely to the rear
10. An optional rear fog lamp must form a matched pair with the obligatory lamp.
11. An optional rear fog lamp must only operate with the obligatory rear fog lamp
12. All rear fog lamps must display an “e” or “E” mark with a “B” or “F” (see Note 2)


You can ignore the options in Notes 3 & 4 - these have led to much confusions and people selling magic boxes of tricks which you do not need, in order to satisfy optional arrangements.

Basically, you need:-
E-Marked lamp lens
One fog lamp at rear, on the offside (see positional requirements table below)
Warning lamp (telltale) in the vehicle when fog lamp illuminated, with the lamp bearing a foglamp symbol
Clearly identified or labelled switch

101205



If it was me, I'd take an extra feed from the third position of your off/sidelamp/headlamp switch, which normally goes to your dip/main switch. Take this extra feed to the input side of a normally-open relay, so that when your lights are on, the relay closes. From the output side of this relay you can run to the fog lamp switch. The result will then be that you can only switch on the fog lamp when the dip or main lights are on (but not when sidelamps are on not when the lights are off. I've made it sound complex, but it's really not too hard (and you don't need a magic box of tricks).
 
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Shaun

Supporter
Eddy thanks so much for the detailed reply, all makes sense, just seemed odd for mine to be wired to come on with full beam, in fog normally full beam is a killer and would be driven with dip only
Will swap as you say, last power job to do...Until I find the next little issue
Again thanks so much
Cheers
 

Shaun

Supporter
Sometimes oh sometimes its not as much fun as it should be.....
Front brakes bled fine no leaks
Rear brakes have a tiny leak on the T union which I put in about the most inaccessible place I could, at the time there was nothing there now its cables, pipes and gear linkages, nipping it up has done no good so must be a duff flare
Oh my the next build will be soooooo much easier :)
Hey ho if it were easy every bugger would build one !!
 
From the manual:-

Rear fog lamps;
1. They must be operational
2. The correct number must be fitted to the vehicle (Table 1)
3. They must only emit a red light
4. The rear fog lamp(s) must only illuminate when dipped beam, main beam or front
fog lamps are lit
(see alternatives in Notes 3 and 4).
5. They must be positioned correctly to meet
a) the positional requirements of Table 1
b) the angles of visibility requirements of Table 1
6. Must be fitted with an operational “tell-tale” lamp (non-flashing) visible from the
driving position
7. Either the switch or tell tale must clearly indicate that operation relates to the
Rear Fog lights (see Note 1).
8. Must not be operated by a brake control
9. Fitted so that the reflector is facing squarely to the rear
10. An optional rear fog lamp must form a matched pair with the obligatory lamp.
11. An optional rear fog lamp must only operate with the obligatory rear fog lamp
12. All rear fog lamps must display an “e” or “E” mark with a “B” or “F” (see Note 2)


You can ignore the options in Notes 3 & 4 - these have led to much confusions and people selling magic boxes of tricks which you do not need, in order to satisfy optional arrangements.

Basically, you need:-
E-Marked lamp lens
One fog lamp at rear, on the offside (see positional requirements table below)
Warning lamp (telltale) in the vehicle when fog lamp illuminated, with the lamp bearing a foglamp symbol
Clearly identified or labelled switch

View attachment 101205


If it was me, I'd take an extra feed from the third position of your off/sidelamp/headlamp switch, which normally goes to your dip/main switch. Take this extra feed to the input side of a normally-open relay, so that when your lights are on, the relay closes. From the output side of this relay you can run to the fog lamp switch. The result will then be that you can only switch on the fog lamp when the dip or main lights are on (but not when sidelamps are on not when the lights are off. I've made it sound complex, but it's really not too hard (and you don't need a magic box of tricks).
Unless I’m misunderstanding your description I’m not sure I agree with all of that, on my IVA test we discussed and the tester certainly tested the operation of my rear fog light and ensuring it could not remain in an on state if the lights are tuned off and then on again, I passed all courtesy of the “box of magic tricks”.

The problem is that people don’t switch off the fog light switch when they turn the lights on so when the lights are turned back on the next time the fog lights will come back on and they DO check this on the test...

IMO saving £30.00 is a saving too far if it’s the difference between a pass and a fail of your IVA.
 

Eddy McClements

Supporter
Unless I’m misunderstanding your description I’m not sure I agree with all of that, on my IVA test we discussed and the tester certainly tested the operation of my rear fog light and ensuring it could not remain in an on state if the lights are tuned off and then on again, I passed all courtesy of the “box of magic tricks”.

The problem is that people don’t switch off the fog light switch when they turn the lights on so when the lights are turned back on the next time the fog lights will come back on and they DO check this on the test...

IMO saving £30.00 is a saving too far if it’s the difference between a pass and a fail of your IVA.
As I said, the Note 4 is optional, not mandatory, and was introduced in 2013 to allow some imported Japanese vehicles to pass IVA with a fog light that worked as described in option 4. Unfortunately this caused much confusion amongst constructors, who read it as a mandatory requirement, not helped by a few IVA examiners who read it the same way. VOSA have subsequently sent the following memo to test centres:-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good Morning ****

We understand that there is some confusion over Note 4 in section 28 regarding the operation of rear fog lamps, the intention of Note 4 was to allow these options but not mandate them.

The requirement for the rear fog lamps are as follows:
The rear fog lamp(s) must only illuminate when dipped beam, main beam or front fog lamps are lit,

But the other conditions listed in the Note 4 will also be accepted if manufactured / wired up that way,

The manual is currently been amended and will clarify the operation of the rear fog lamps and the accepted alternatives, we have already issued a memo to all IVA Examiners with the correct information so VOSA Station should now be applying the correct standard.

Hopefully this will resolve your concern

For all the requirements regarding IVA can be found in the Inspection Manual which is free to download from Vehicle approval - GOV.UK

many thanks
*******

*******
Approvals Policy Engineer
Approvals Scheme Management
Scheme Management and External Relations

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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Shaun

Supporter
Interesting stuff chaps, Paul where do you get your box of tricks? Just wanted to take a look and see how its wrired, etc
Cheers
 
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