Supercars, Car and Driver, Results - When one of you guys taking a GT40?
- Thread starter Ron Earp
- Start date
Ron Earp
Admin
Yeah, we've strayed.
I think everyone knows that 15-20% is accepted loss figures for conversion of flywheel up to rear wheel hp. Seems to be supported from plently of emperical data as well as more than a few text authorities.
But the question is and the reason for the post: When are one of the GT40 manufacturers going to enter a car? There are plently of manufacturers here, and, I know some have read the thread.
Heck, Superformance has a Cobra in the thing, a well setup GT40 ought to outperform a well setup Cobra. The GT40 has some serious advantages in the chassis and weight transfer areas. With similar power and weight it should do better.
Ron
[ August 16, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
[ August 16, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
I think everyone knows that 15-20% is accepted loss figures for conversion of flywheel up to rear wheel hp. Seems to be supported from plently of emperical data as well as more than a few text authorities.
But the question is and the reason for the post: When are one of the GT40 manufacturers going to enter a car? There are plently of manufacturers here, and, I know some have read the thread.
Heck, Superformance has a Cobra in the thing, a well setup GT40 ought to outperform a well setup Cobra. The GT40 has some serious advantages in the chassis and weight transfer areas. With similar power and weight it should do better.
Ron
[ August 16, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
[ August 16, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
Ok this is my last boring physics post
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris L:
G. Gibbs
You would therefor need to take into account how the two components of the resultant force are applied to the individual items in the gear-box to determine whether the friction is a function of torque and speed, or simply speed alone.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are totally correct and I did not want to get into that (make my post more long and boring). On a gear set, for example, the forces are applied at an angle (involute angle?? been a while for me too) to each other. Thus there is a component that is pushing towards the shaft (producing bearing loads), and a component tangent to the gear circle (producing the torque on the gear). The forces on the gears is directly proportional to the applied torque from the engine. These previously mentioned components are fixed based on this involute angle and thus the torque actually applied to rotate the gear and the bearing forces scale with applied torque also. The bearing loads result in the "verticle" friction force you mentioned. It is easy to see how all the loads including "verticle" forces and friction forces scale with applied load to the system.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
The viscosity factor, incidentally, would also be speed related with no added friction due to torque levels.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes I hoped that is the impression that I left in my first post. There is likely viscous forces that would scale with speed and speed ^2 and would be independent of applied load.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris L:
G. Gibbs
You would therefor need to take into account how the two components of the resultant force are applied to the individual items in the gear-box to determine whether the friction is a function of torque and speed, or simply speed alone.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are totally correct and I did not want to get into that (make my post more long and boring). On a gear set, for example, the forces are applied at an angle (involute angle?? been a while for me too) to each other. Thus there is a component that is pushing towards the shaft (producing bearing loads), and a component tangent to the gear circle (producing the torque on the gear). The forces on the gears is directly proportional to the applied torque from the engine. These previously mentioned components are fixed based on this involute angle and thus the torque actually applied to rotate the gear and the bearing forces scale with applied torque also. The bearing loads result in the "verticle" friction force you mentioned. It is easy to see how all the loads including "verticle" forces and friction forces scale with applied load to the system.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>
The viscosity factor, incidentally, would also be speed related with no added friction due to torque levels.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes I hoped that is the impression that I left in my first post. There is likely viscous forces that would scale with speed and speed ^2 and would be independent of applied load.
Maybe Bob Putnam will read this, and the C&D article, and try to get his GT40 entered in next year's contest.
Beyond the performance parameters of the cars entered, the fact that C&D allowed "replicas" to be entered is breaking new ground. Heck, the Cobra and the Lister did better than the high $$$ Lambo, the Sonoma truck, or the Vipers. And the replicas were a lot cheaper!!
This is great recognition of a segment of the auto industry that has been overlooked for too long.
Bill D
Beyond the performance parameters of the cars entered, the fact that C&D allowed "replicas" to be entered is breaking new ground. Heck, the Cobra and the Lister did better than the high $$$ Lambo, the Sonoma truck, or the Vipers. And the replicas were a lot cheaper!!
This is great recognition of a segment of the auto industry that has been overlooked for too long.
Bill D
Ron Earp
Admin
I hope that is the case Bill.
I liked the part of the article that said "Ferrari was contacted along with numerous Ferrari owners, none would come." Seems they are content to race one another in Ferrari Challenges where they can only be beat by other Ferraris. Typical from what little I know of the crowd.
R
I liked the part of the article that said "Ferrari was contacted along with numerous Ferrari owners, none would come." Seems they are content to race one another in Ferrari Challenges where they can only be beat by other Ferraris. Typical from what little I know of the crowd.
R
Ferrari's have won more races than ANY other manufacture ever. It is unlikely that this will change in any of our lifetimes.
I'm surprised that there aren't any Ultimas on that list, and would expect one to show up at some point in the future. I'd love to see Roaring Forties enter the fray with one of Gordon Levy's 500 hp engines.
Ferraris were designed to be quickest around a race circuit. What would it prove to enter one in this competition?
Having said that, if you were to bring the new Enzo into the comp, there would be nothing to challenge it I suspect... we are talking ultimate here aren't we?
In the meantime... I'll second the call to enter Gordon Levy's RF40
Having said that, if you were to bring the new Enzo into the comp, there would be nothing to challenge it I suspect... we are talking ultimate here aren't we?
In the meantime... I'll second the call to enter Gordon Levy's RF40
Chris
If an Enzo showed up the results would be the same as they were in Sunday's FI race.
Nothing else would come close.
Best
Jim
If an Enzo showed up the results would be the same as they were in Sunday's FI race.
Nothing else would come close.
Best
Jim
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MK -IV J6:
Ferrari's have won more races than ANY other manufacture ever. It is unlikely that this will change in any of our lifetimes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you need to define "races" as I am sure if you include the sum from ALL forms of motorsports they would be FAR from the front.
Ferrari's have won more races than ANY other manufacture ever. It is unlikely that this will change in any of our lifetimes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you need to define "races" as I am sure if you include the sum from ALL forms of motorsports they would be FAR from the front.
Include any sanctioned motorsport event you want. Defining manufacturer as someone who makes the entire vehicle, engine, chassis,etc. in house, my remark, stands. Road and Track, for whatever that's worth agrees. In FI another manufacturer hasn't won a championship since 1963!
Best
Jim
Best
Jim
WOW just saw that Enzo in C&D. Runs great. Looks like it ran off the road and took out an ugly forrest. Then I compare the McLeren F1 (construction book that I have. Don't remember the name) which looks like a work of art.
G
Guest
Guest
Sorry guys, the McClaren F1 would make the Enzo look silly. Only down 25 hp, but also 500 lbs. lighter. Holds 3 people, and to think it was built 10 years ago!
Now there’s a thought to salivate over… McClaren F1 vs Enzo Ferrari.
Lets factor some more numbers into the mix. The F1 was based on the formula one technology of its time, as was the Enzo. Without a significant difference in weight or torque between the eras, the formula one cars have gone from 3.8sec 0–>60mph to 2.7sec. Most of that is improved suspension technology allowing them to get power to ground.
Hmmm… that would be an interesting race.
Lets factor some more numbers into the mix. The F1 was based on the formula one technology of its time, as was the Enzo. Without a significant difference in weight or torque between the eras, the formula one cars have gone from 3.8sec 0–>60mph to 2.7sec. Most of that is improved suspension technology allowing them to get power to ground.
Hmmm… that would be an interesting race.
Also tires are always improving providing extra traction for the traction control launch systems.
The McLaren as cool as it is is somewhat useless on the road. Below 30 mph the one I drove overheated. The one Road and Track tested overheated as well. This may have had something to do with the US conversion which also turned it into a one seater with ugly bumpers!
