I wrote the text of this post three months ago, saved it, and didn't look at it or this forum again until today. I wanted some time to cool off and to see if I still felt the same way when I returned. After all, this post is going in the same section as pages of transaxle and part scam threads, and while it may not be as horribly bleak as those stories, it is something that I don't take lightly. After reflecting upon it, I felt I should share my feedback so that others (and maybe Tornado) could learn from it and make better decisions. These are a few of the instances that stick out to me over my roughly 2 years of dealing with them so far.
-I was told multiple times by Tornado that the GT40s.com PM system is not 'secure', so no information is discussed there. Beyond being at tin-foil-hat levels of conspiracy theory, it immediately made me uneasy speaking with them. Why is Tornado even on this forum if there are secret forces using these PM's against them?.... I had to laugh when I saw (banned) George's posts, because one of them specifically mentioned Andy/Scott telling him the PM system here was not secure and it was the foundation of some of the wild accusations he was throwing around a few weeks ago.
-'Older' Tornado A-arms have structural deficiencies that are well known. I own an older chassis and suspension bits. I asked multiple times for information on new 'upgraded' a-arms to purchase, but that question was avoided. The deficiencies that appear after even moderate use of the thin walled, non chromoly tubing of the Tornado A arms are well-documented in several threads here and even articles elsewhere. I asked about the status of my a-arms, because there are 'new' and 'old' styles floating around according to Andy on this forum, but no direct information was ever provided as to what year they were changed or what the changes were. From roundabout information gathered from several posts, these changes were supposedly purely in material/wall thickness, and do not relate to any changes in actual geometry. I don't think I ever even got a straight answer on what 'style' my own arms were! This is, in my mind, a safety issue and it was handled with the same air of secrecy and purposefully obfuscated statements that seem to pervade every interaction with Tornado.
-I asked to purchase a PDF or upgraded version of build manual and supporting instructions, and was told it doesn't exist; but Andy has mentioned (and his website mentions) that the kit purchase currently comes with a PDF/CD with build photos to accompany the manual. Why say this is not the case? If you don't like dealing with me and don't want to sell it to me, why not just say that?
-I asked about the upgrades Tornado does to the UN1 box when I was considering buying the transmission through them. They claim several upgrades, specifically with 2nd and 3rd gears and, straight off their website, drilled out oil ways. When I asked what these upgrades were and what they did, I was told they are proprietary and cannot be shared. I find it hard to justify spending money on something that simply has mysterious 'upgrades' for which the item price is drastically increased.
-I asked for a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin for my frame- I was told within 10 minutes of me asking Scott here in the US that my frame was now worked on/modified and they could not provide original certification. Then, somehow Andy was magically contacted an hour later, which was between the hours of 12am and 1am in the UK, and Scott got back to me and said it was decided that for 100GBP, a certificate could in fact be issued by Andy.
-I ordered a windshield from Tornado. No estimate was given for shipping and crating costs; I was told it was supposedly impossible to tell in advance. I was further told I had to give my credit card number and the charges would be billed after it shipped. Shipping and crating charges were exorbitant- anywhere from 20-55% over other quotes from UK manufacturers I sought out after seeing what the Tornado windshield ended up costing me. The worst of it was, the windshield was damaged when I got it!- chipped on the edge of the glass. The windshield was completely wrapped in plastic. The missing chip of glass was not in the plastic bag, and was in an area of the windshield that was totally suspended during shipment and could not have possibly cracked from handling damage. In other words- the damage occurred before the windshield ever went in the packaging. I was told nothing could be done, and to just patch the chip and run it or buy another windshield. That one hit my wallet pretty hard.
-I feel I really need to make note of what is, frankly, incredibly odd/Bipolar treatment- from hostility/suspicion to graciousness. Scott offered to let me come up, meet him, and see his new Tornado Carbon Fiber frame back in 2012. When I asked again a few weeks later about visiting, I was told an absolute no- that this is a boutique cottage industry and Tornado cannot allow the chance of information on their parts getting out there. After another email exchange, Scott said again that such a visit would be fine...? This is quite literally the script for almost every interaction I've had with them. Why do I, the customer, have to work so hard to maintain a relationship with the company? It's exhausting!
-Back in June, I cut apart my gas tank to put a partition in it. (There's a thread on this as well- the last one I posted before I took a hiatus from this site.) This was supposed to be one of the more expensive pieces of the kit, as it was foam-filled directly from Tornado. This is a £200 premium over regular tanks. When I went to pull the foam out, I discovered that there were only two 'end caps' of good solid foam, and the middle was full of foam castoff pieces, slivers, and foam stringers and dust. Naturally, this cannot be seen if you peer in the holes at the either end of the tank. Not only is this pretty inefficient baffling, but it's a massive price increase for what look like extra junk foam. I suppose I expected to find more than just dumpster castoffs from the local foam company for the significant premium these tanks command. To touch upon this briefly, another member here bought the same tanks, filled with explosafe now according to Andy. Upon inspection by the member...still foam. Do they not know what goes in their own tanks? Are they still getting rid of old inventory? Was this a vendor mistake? The worst part...if Andy told us what it was, I'm not sure I would believe him!
Tornado makes some decent parts at reasonable prices, and I'm happy to have a Tornado frame to hammer on, but this air of secrecy and general sheisty feeling hangs over my every communication with them, and to say that it is off-putting is an understatement. I will honestly say that one of the reasons I did not post anything that might be construed as negative was also because I was woried about being cut off from buying Tornado parts. Tornado, moreso than others, is a place where you have to be careful to always smooth ruffled feathers (perceived or real) if you want to continue to talk to them. Dealing with a company that seems to be paranoid and evasive is not a pleasant experience. As Scott mentioned many, many times to me, there have been legal issues in the past between Tornado and other manufacturers, but to carry this chip on your shoulder when talking to potential and current customers about your product- well...again, this doesn't make for a pleasant experience.
I hope I'm the odd duck out, and I hope that seeing their actions from a different angle can help improve how they treat their customers and handle their mistakes.
-Dylan
-I was told multiple times by Tornado that the GT40s.com PM system is not 'secure', so no information is discussed there. Beyond being at tin-foil-hat levels of conspiracy theory, it immediately made me uneasy speaking with them. Why is Tornado even on this forum if there are secret forces using these PM's against them?.... I had to laugh when I saw (banned) George's posts, because one of them specifically mentioned Andy/Scott telling him the PM system here was not secure and it was the foundation of some of the wild accusations he was throwing around a few weeks ago.
-'Older' Tornado A-arms have structural deficiencies that are well known. I own an older chassis and suspension bits. I asked multiple times for information on new 'upgraded' a-arms to purchase, but that question was avoided. The deficiencies that appear after even moderate use of the thin walled, non chromoly tubing of the Tornado A arms are well-documented in several threads here and even articles elsewhere. I asked about the status of my a-arms, because there are 'new' and 'old' styles floating around according to Andy on this forum, but no direct information was ever provided as to what year they were changed or what the changes were. From roundabout information gathered from several posts, these changes were supposedly purely in material/wall thickness, and do not relate to any changes in actual geometry. I don't think I ever even got a straight answer on what 'style' my own arms were! This is, in my mind, a safety issue and it was handled with the same air of secrecy and purposefully obfuscated statements that seem to pervade every interaction with Tornado.
-I asked to purchase a PDF or upgraded version of build manual and supporting instructions, and was told it doesn't exist; but Andy has mentioned (and his website mentions) that the kit purchase currently comes with a PDF/CD with build photos to accompany the manual. Why say this is not the case? If you don't like dealing with me and don't want to sell it to me, why not just say that?
-I asked about the upgrades Tornado does to the UN1 box when I was considering buying the transmission through them. They claim several upgrades, specifically with 2nd and 3rd gears and, straight off their website, drilled out oil ways. When I asked what these upgrades were and what they did, I was told they are proprietary and cannot be shared. I find it hard to justify spending money on something that simply has mysterious 'upgrades' for which the item price is drastically increased.
-I asked for a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin for my frame- I was told within 10 minutes of me asking Scott here in the US that my frame was now worked on/modified and they could not provide original certification. Then, somehow Andy was magically contacted an hour later, which was between the hours of 12am and 1am in the UK, and Scott got back to me and said it was decided that for 100GBP, a certificate could in fact be issued by Andy.
-I ordered a windshield from Tornado. No estimate was given for shipping and crating costs; I was told it was supposedly impossible to tell in advance. I was further told I had to give my credit card number and the charges would be billed after it shipped. Shipping and crating charges were exorbitant- anywhere from 20-55% over other quotes from UK manufacturers I sought out after seeing what the Tornado windshield ended up costing me. The worst of it was, the windshield was damaged when I got it!- chipped on the edge of the glass. The windshield was completely wrapped in plastic. The missing chip of glass was not in the plastic bag, and was in an area of the windshield that was totally suspended during shipment and could not have possibly cracked from handling damage. In other words- the damage occurred before the windshield ever went in the packaging. I was told nothing could be done, and to just patch the chip and run it or buy another windshield. That one hit my wallet pretty hard.
-I feel I really need to make note of what is, frankly, incredibly odd/Bipolar treatment- from hostility/suspicion to graciousness. Scott offered to let me come up, meet him, and see his new Tornado Carbon Fiber frame back in 2012. When I asked again a few weeks later about visiting, I was told an absolute no- that this is a boutique cottage industry and Tornado cannot allow the chance of information on their parts getting out there. After another email exchange, Scott said again that such a visit would be fine...? This is quite literally the script for almost every interaction I've had with them. Why do I, the customer, have to work so hard to maintain a relationship with the company? It's exhausting!
-Back in June, I cut apart my gas tank to put a partition in it. (There's a thread on this as well- the last one I posted before I took a hiatus from this site.) This was supposed to be one of the more expensive pieces of the kit, as it was foam-filled directly from Tornado. This is a £200 premium over regular tanks. When I went to pull the foam out, I discovered that there were only two 'end caps' of good solid foam, and the middle was full of foam castoff pieces, slivers, and foam stringers and dust. Naturally, this cannot be seen if you peer in the holes at the either end of the tank. Not only is this pretty inefficient baffling, but it's a massive price increase for what look like extra junk foam. I suppose I expected to find more than just dumpster castoffs from the local foam company for the significant premium these tanks command. To touch upon this briefly, another member here bought the same tanks, filled with explosafe now according to Andy. Upon inspection by the member...still foam. Do they not know what goes in their own tanks? Are they still getting rid of old inventory? Was this a vendor mistake? The worst part...if Andy told us what it was, I'm not sure I would believe him!
Tornado makes some decent parts at reasonable prices, and I'm happy to have a Tornado frame to hammer on, but this air of secrecy and general sheisty feeling hangs over my every communication with them, and to say that it is off-putting is an understatement. I will honestly say that one of the reasons I did not post anything that might be construed as negative was also because I was woried about being cut off from buying Tornado parts. Tornado, moreso than others, is a place where you have to be careful to always smooth ruffled feathers (perceived or real) if you want to continue to talk to them. Dealing with a company that seems to be paranoid and evasive is not a pleasant experience. As Scott mentioned many, many times to me, there have been legal issues in the past between Tornado and other manufacturers, but to carry this chip on your shoulder when talking to potential and current customers about your product- well...again, this doesn't make for a pleasant experience.
I hope I'm the odd duck out, and I hope that seeing their actions from a different angle can help improve how they treat their customers and handle their mistakes.
-Dylan
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