Vintage guitars

[Jim Rosenthal]

Tom,
A few observations:
1) nice to know we have all these guitar enthusiasts in this forum. Building fast cars and being interested in hot rods seem to go hand in hand. I had a friend here in MD who was a really accomplished guitar player (Danny Gatton) who said once that he liked building hot rods and being the garage at least as much as he liked playing music. And he built some very cool cars..
2) I have played and gigged with all the above guitars: my workhorses are a 66 Telecaster (actually an Esquire, but with Tele pickups) and a sixties black LP, the one without the humbucking pickups. The LP is a heavy guitar and after three hours your back and neck really feel it. But how many three-hour gigs will she play? For guitar players, feel of the instrument, the right body shape, and TONE are the most important things. So really this is about going to music stores and trying out a lot of guitars and seeing what she really feels comfortable on and likes to play the most. This probably precludes getting a guitar shipped to you; I think you are better off spending at least a day playing a lot of guitars and seeing what she likes best.
3) as far as Fenders go, the Japanese-built Strats and Teles are the best. The quality is matchless. I would advise you to get the best NEW guitar you can as opposed to a vintage instrument. An older guitar is not necessarily a better guitar and a guitar that is a specific endorser model, like the Beck, Clapton or Vaughn Strats, may be great for that individual player but not to anyone else's liking when compared to a standard model that actually does more things better.
4) As far as Gibsons go, if you can get her to play an SG Custom or an SG Standard, she may like that better for weight and feel. They are not as robust as LPs but they are a fine guitar and a good SG is the equal of anything for playing rock. And their access to the higher frets is as good as anything. SGs have been the preferred guitars of a lot of great players including Jeff Beck, Clapton, Frank Marino, and Terry Kath.
5) I strongly second the advice to get a good tube (valve) amplifier. My newest amp is a black Fender Vibrolux built in the 60s- Fender have reissued almost all of their old designs such as the 4-10" Bassman (not a bass amp, by the way), the tweed Twin, the black Twin and all its' smaller brethren. These circuit designs, some of which are greater than fifty years old, are still built and sold because they are reliable and they sound great. 25-30 watts from a tube amp is plenty for small gigs, and if you need to be louder, you put a proper mic in front of it, and mic it through the sound system.

Vintage guitars are nice and all (I have a few, but they are my daily players, and I have owned them for decades) but you can get just as good a guitar by buying a new one built to an old design. AND she gets to play the actual instrument and not just look at it in a photo- very important.

Also, you should look at PRS (Paul Reed Smith) guitars. Full disclosure; Paul is a friend and he is from this area. But they build excellent instruments and his understanding of pickup design and guitar construction is the equal of anyone now building electric guitars. They are not the same as either a Gibson or a Fender; they have their own voice and style and feel, and thousands of working musicians swear by them. They are well worth looking at.

One more comment: Jeff Beck said, in print, as far as the distinctions between Strats and Teles, something like this: "if you go to a jam session you'll see a lot of people with Strats; watch out for the guy playing the Tele. He means business." A Tele is a very simple guitar, but it has everything you need to make great music, and nothing that you don't. I don't fancy Strats; I think they are needlessly complex and you can't get a good rhythm sound from a Strat. I know that a lot of great players have used them (Beck, Clapton, etc- and the greatest of them all, Jimi Hendrix) but those guys would sound great on anything. And Mike Bloomfield and Robben Ford, two other great players, didn't and don't play Strats. So she may want a guitar that is not so much of a one-trick dog.

Thanks for opening this thread; talking guitars is a lot of fun. Let us know if you have any interest in vintage keyboards. We use a Hammond B3 in one of my bands.

 

[Garry]

+1 Jimbo. Valve amps, Telecasters, PRS!

Tom, go to a music store and play everything they have. She will find her 'perfect' guitar. Beware though, like all of us who play guitar, we own several (some of us MANY) and as a guitarist, she is going to find that owning more than one or two will be a never ending journey. get your checkbook out!
Garry

 

[Rick S.]

take her to a music store and let her pick it out with some guidance from dad.

i love my gibson firebird, wonderful tone, but knock it over and it's done.

for durability, coolness, and tone, can't beat a telecaster...

 

[Ross Nicol]

My opinion is the style of music determines the best guitar

Country - Fender Telecaster Strat (clean)
Rock (distortion) - Les Paul
Jazz - Semi Acoustic - Gibson 335

Lots of alternative guitars that fit but The above are the most well known

The only amp is a valve amp but a learner can start on a little 10w solid state practice amp. Moving up to a valve /tube amp later for playing gigs.

Fender Twin is excellent for country/Jazz
Marshall good for rock
Lot's of alternative brands available too.
I Manufactured valve/tube amps in the 70s and 80s, nowdays I fix them, so get to see a lot of good and bad. You can't beat a Fender Twin silver face mid 70s for a very reliable amp.

Ross:thumbsup:

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Right; the silver face Fenders are frequently a bargain because they don't have the vintage look of the black faced Fenders, but on the early ones, the circuits are the same. And on the later ones, you can change the circuit to BF specs and it will sound the same, and sound great.

My all-time favorite amp is the Fender low-power Twin from the 50s, the tweed amp with (I think) a pair of output tubes instead of the quartet. Low-power is a misnomer- those amps will still make fifty watts and with two twelves they will blow the back wall off the room. But they are HEAVY and they don't have all the mod cons like an effects loop, reverb, etc. And it's too much amp for a thirteen year old who won't need all that power and won't like the weight of it.

If I wasn't finishing a GT40 I'd probably be looking for an old Twin, so it's just as well I'm working on cars....

 

[Ian K]

I agree with the "take her to the shop and let her check different
ones out". Vintage guitars are fun to collect and play, but so are
new ones.

Les Pauls are way too heavy for smallish people. Angus Young of
AC/DC had a great quote when asked why he played an SG -
something to the effect that he nearly through his hip out the
first time he tried to play one. Alas, I missed a golden opportunity
to get hold of a beautiful pewter-burst one back in the mid 80's
(it was 70's vintage I believe).

My personal gear is a '74 Tobacco Burst Strat with black pickguard,
EMG SA-90s, and Kahler locking tremelo. Bought it in 1984 used and
already modified, so I had no problem taking it a bit further.

My other one is a 1986/7 Kramer Baretta in Peral/Flip-Flop white.
All stock. I love this year because the necks and bodies were
made by ESP.

As far as the pricing of the two you are looking at, the Beck Strat
sounds a little high, but not too far off the mark. The Les Paul, on
the other hand, actually sounds like a pretty good deal. If she
really likes the look and sound of a Les Paul, look for the Les Paul
Studios - they are a little thinner and lighter.

Ian

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I forgot to add this: the Gibson SG series of guitars actually started out as an updated new-look Les Paul model. The very early "SG" guitars have a plate on them that says "Les Paul Model". From what I remember, LP didn't actually like them and asked Gibson to remove his name from the guitar, whereupon they became "SG"s (which Ted McCarty said stood for "solid guitar") So you could tell your girl that an SG guitar really IS a Les Paul- sort of.

Another interesting piece to all this: most of the great Gibson electric guitar designs (the Les Paul, the SG, the semi-hollow guitars like the ES-335, the humbucking pickup, and the Bigsby vibrato, possibly the Firebird and Explorer) were all Ted McCarty designs, or done when Ted was in charge of that division of Gibson. Neither Ted McCarty nor Leo Fender were musicians, but that didn't stop them from designing and building great guitars and amplifiers. It's hard to imagine what electric guitars would be- or if they would be around much at all- without the genius of these two men.
Most guitar players have heard of Leo Fender, but Ted McCarty was pretty much unknown until Paul Smith sought him out as a consultant on guitar design- and put Ted's name on a PRS guitar. Paul still builds McCarty models today- another great guitar to look at and play.

 

[Mike]

Hi. The following is from my buddy who is a serious vintage guitar guy, who buys and sells them. Hope it's helpful.
Mike


Here's a quick rundown:

First, my price guide says that production on the Jeff Beck stratocaster model did not begin until 1994 and ended in 2007. So, I'm not sure about the mid-80's claim. If I had the serial number I could probably verify the date of production. The price guide says that guitar is worth $1,000 to $1,000 in common colors (such as cream) and $1,050 to $1,400 in rare colors.

Next, the serial number on the Les Paul gibes with the 1977 date. Here's how you read Gibson serial numbers:

Digits 1 & 5 = the last two digits of the year of production
Digits 2, 3 & 4 = the day of the year it was produced. This was produced on Dec 7, 1977
Digits 6,7 & 8 = the number of guitars produced that day. Guitars built in the Nashville factory start with 500 so this one was the 47th guitar built that day.

My price guide for this guitar in goldtop finish says $2,700 to $3,000 depending on condition. I have one of these from 1970 and it's probably my favorite of all my guitars.

Of course he'll have to check them both out for function. Minor dings and dents do not detract much from the value as they are a sign of vintage-ness. One thing he'll want to be sure of is that they have not been refinished and have not had any original parts replaced. That definitely does detract from the value. Also both guitars should have cases and he'll want the older Gibson to have its original case. Less important for the newer Fender.

With this economy, the price he has suggested sounds good to me. I'd give it a try. Either one of these pieces will be a giant step up from the Squire Strat for this young lady. Have him call me if he wants to.

Mike C.
(314) 956-0753

 

[EGLITOM]

Thanks for that Mike, realy halp ful as are all the other infos

TOM