Weber costs?

[Ron Earp]

How much you folks paying for your IDA setups? I'm shopping around now, looking for someone who will put the damn right size chokes in them instead of passing off some 38s etc. What have you folks found on the market? My last set of IDFs came from Pierce, but I don't mind saying I didn't get much support from them - little in the way of info on baseline and what they were setup for. My impression was they were, 4 years ago, not that knowledable on Ford stuff. Any comments welcome.

Ron

 

[JCoop]

Ron, I just ordered a set from Steve at TopEnd (aren't they banner advertisers here?) $2795 plus $229 if you want the fuel line kit and plus $80 if you want stack filters. It's the best price I've gotten and also great guys to deal with. Don't have them yet, though.

Ray

 

[Ron Earp]

they are, and I've emailed him and I hope he'll understand what I am after, but, emailing him a few months ago resulted in "no, the webers are setup for your engine but use 38mm chokes" I'd tried Pierce a couple of times with no good effect, Inglase will be tried as well but I hope Top End can provide what I need.

My beef with a lot of the places has been how can the webers be setup for my engine and use 38mm chokes, when on the other thread and from dyno results we've proved if you want some RPM you'll need big chokes?

I think the IDAs come with "standard" chokes and a lot of these places don't want to change them, or if they do they charge a lot. Do you know what you are getting in yours? What sort of engine and cam are you using?

 

[Mike Christian]

try:
JayCee Enterprises
7722 Talbert Ave., #F
Huntington Beach, CA 92648
(714) 848-9898

they modify webers for performance. Mainly talked about in VW applications, but they build new Weber IDAs with bigger chokes and plates...so says the media.

Regards,
Mike

 

[JCoop]

Uh-oh, I didn't ask. I'd better right now but my motor is a standard FRP crate 302/345. Not sure of the cam as I don't have a build sheet. I believe the cam is a HYDRAULIC ROLLER TAPPET CAMSHAFT M-6250-B303
Also, GT-40X XTRA PERFORMANCE “TURBO-SWIRL” ALUMINUM CYLINDER HEADS
M-6049-X303

(copy/paste of FRP's copy)


Do I need larger than 38's?

 

[Ron Earp]

Have a look at this thread and the graphs contained inside:

http://www.gt40s.com/ubbthreads/showflat...e=0&fpart=1

With a 342" motor 38s will make peak power at about 5000 RPM - it'll be torquey but fall off after that, strained for air. And I watched one do that on the dyno about two years ago with 38s when the motor should have made power to 6800.

At 302" you'll be better off than a 342. Use the formula and do the calculations.

Ron

 

[JCoop]

Looks like it'll work OK.

In correspondence with TEP, the claim is that for my particular setup, it would be good up to 6500 RPM.
Considering the intended use (80%street), the price, and my limited knowledge at this point, it's probably a good starting point.
Should keep me (and my wallet) busy this spring.
I occasionally run my Cobra's 351W up to 6500 and it's pretty scary.

And didn't someone say Torque wins races, HP sells cars?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Ron Earp]

Here is the calculated data for a 302:

Venturi Size Peak Power
31 3882
32 4137
33 4399
34 4670
35 4949
36 5235
37 5530
38 5833
39 6144
40 6464
41 6791
42 7126
43 7469
44 7821
45 8180
46 8548
47 8924
48 9308

 

[John B]

Ron,

The guy I bought my original set of Webers from, I think is still around. If your interested, I will call him if has any rebuilt sets availiable.. he's is also excellent with support and trouble shooting. As for chokes, if your going to run them on the street,I would go with 42mm...38mm is to small. If you going on the track, 50mm is a must! 42mm will run out of air at 6000rpm if you have a big cam. I run 50mm and have run it up to 7500 rpm and it just starts to run short of air. However, It is only at 7500 for a couple of seconds and does'nt slow me down. As for base line set ups, the video will show you how to set the base line and synce the carbs. When I read the book, it was a little intimidating but again the DVD on webers will make it clear. If you are still confused , i will walk you through..it's very logical. I don't claim to be an expert, but i have been running and tunning them for over 10 years. I paid 2,500 for and original set and manifold,fuel lines and linkage. the same set today would command over $5000.00 due to being original. Inglese in my opinion are to expensive. Redline seem to be reasonable but if you want any extras it will cost you. Tech support is not the best from these companies because they want you to pay for their service. That is why in stated in a past thread the "W" in Webers means "WHAT!... HOW MUCH. Also the chart is not accurate! If you run a bigger cam, which most people do throws the calculations off. Those specs are for mild street cams.

Reagard
oliver

 

[JCoop]

Thanks, Ron. Great Info!

I think what I'll do is properly run in this motor with the Holley, then do some Dyno pulls before I bolt on the Webers. Then do another Dyno session. That should give me a clearer path to performance...

P.S. The set came in yesterday to my office; beautiful! I put it on top of my desk and word got around to check out "Ray's new, huge paperweight!"
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Ron Earp]

I got this from TopEnd:

Ron,
If we machine the set that comes in the kit it will be $150 extra, If you want another set of venturis already machined to 44mm (So that you can keep the 37's and machine them to 40mm or 42mm if you decide later) it will be $225

Seems like that would work and still keep the price reasonable.

Oliver, does you man have any sets available, with manifold and setup with some large chokes?

Ron

 

[John B]

Post a picture of the webers so I can see what you got for the money. Also, Did it come with a unisyn? include it with the photo. In addition, if you have a brand new motor Break it in with a standard carbertor first. I would also put a couple of hundred miles on the motor because we all know that the engine get tighter as it breaks in. If you put the webbers on it early, you may have to play with the jetting and re-balance... or you may just have to tweek the the timming a bit/ This is only my theory! But for sure break in the car with a holly set-up!

Regards

Oliver

 

[JCoop]

I just came back from HRE motors (Billy Andrews) to ask if he could help me out in the installation of the weber kit. He said absolutely NOT. He strongly recommends retaining the Avenger Holley. He does NOT recommend the Webers unless I did a cam change. For overall driveability and performance, he said I may spend most of my summers in the Dyno shop trying to figure out the Webers and then not get the performance expected anyway. Now I gues I'll have to negotiate a "return" with Topend?

Comments?

 

[John B]

I was told the same thing. The negitive information from people regarding Webers is due to poor information. Yes It's true if you don't know how to synce carbs or take the time to read the book and get the basic tuning information down...Pack it and send it back. If you gave Top END your engine specs, they paraticly jet it for you. There may be a jet change or maybe not. Like i stated in the past that mis-informed people always state " AHH you have to tune them all the time...I say "BULLSHIT". There will be a learning curve of course. But if you take the time to build your on car, tunning the webers will not be as troublesome. People praise you for having the webers and think you must be a master tunner to run webers. You get automatic respect...Only if they new.. The myth behind webers still lives on. If you give up that easy, send it back and keep envying the guys with webers. Heck! if they were so tuff don't you think that Shelby and all the rest would have stuck with holly.. Most of the guys were back yard mechanics..There is a great source of info that will help you. The DVD will show you how to synce/ Install and rebuild your carbs. All what is left is your desire and passion. And once you got them up and running...YOU WON'T BE SORRY. And once you get comfortable with the carbs, you will also realize that it was not as hard as they say. Then you will be part of the weber club. When I first got my webers, the forum was not around, As I read through the threads I could have only wished I had such information/tips ect..You are way ahead of the game and you don't really realize. I hope you give some carfull thought..I wish i was close, i would put them on for you...Watch the DVD A couple times. follow the steps for the installation, and syncing and you should be fine. If have a trouble shooting question...ASK AWAY on the forum.If I don't know what the problem is...Somone else will. Best of luck...

one more thing.. Did the guy ever work on webers at HRE.. OR did he shoot from the hip...? I would bet not...

Regards oliver

 

[JCoop]

I tend to agree. I always like a challenge. I think I may just keep them and as soon as the engine feels like it's finally broken in right, I'll roll up the shirtsleeves and get down to it. Thanks for the encouragement.

Ray

 

[Neal]

$2700 from Pierce for repro IDAs.
I had little experience tuning multiple carbs so I chose to get a baseline on an engine dyno. The operator was an experienced tuner. The only change we made to the base setup were the main jets aside from synchronization, idle adjustment and tweeks on the transition circuit. Tuning was primarily based on exhaust gas temperatures. Motor ran like a champ. Somewhere between the dyno and the installation of the motor I lost my tune. I was frustrated as I knew how well the motor could run. What I found were two plugs with cracked housings, must be my gorilla hands, and the linkage was off causing the synch to be way off. I disconnected the linkage and synched everything then reconnected and reset the idle. Motor is back to 100%.
So long as you get the synch correct and the mains close, there is no reason you cannot tune these yourself. The linkage is an important factor in making the setup work. Patience is key. The throttle respone is unlike any carb'd motor I've ever had. The Haynes weber book has a good step by step tutorial on tuning a new setup. There is nothing like the real deal!

 

[John B]

Another voice of experience. None of the guys on this forum are expert weber tuners...But we managed/took the time..and than took the glory..


Words of wisdom

Oliver

 

[JCoop]

Sometimes, people get a fantastic, god-like reputation and a fanatical following because of the beautiful cars they build. Let me tell you, the Shelby CSXs and the 2 CAVs that were being built at HRE were absolutely gorgeous. The workmanship and attention to detail was second to none. This doesn't mean that great builders can think out of the box. So if the as-designed componentry is what's most comfortable and most successful for them(i.e. single 4 barrel carburetion), it's hard to rock the boat. I think that was the basis for that comment.

So, like you said, Carrol Shelby was on to something when he slapped Webers onto that 289; so how wrong can it be?

 

[Denis Bedford]

I don't know anything about tuning these things but I thought you might like a pic of this nice little group on the XJ13 they are 42 IDF Regards

 

[Denis Bedford]

I missed again