What a Muppet!

[Bob Fechter]

Pumping printed money into the market doesn't add any value to it. The market is again begging Bernanke to ease, like a junky waiting for its next fix.

Thanks for admitting that the markets are up because of our kids money being pumped into a market that has to correct. Do you have kids?

Ever notice how the prices have gone up at Harbor Freight? (to those who don't know, Harbor Freight sells cheap Chinese tools)

You say that like its a bad thing.

They did save the banks, they did save the brokerage firms, they did save the auto industry..................

They did save the economy!!!!

Stocks are up because the economy was saved. You should be thankful.

 

[Mark]

Seriously though, looking ahead, long after we have all departed, what would happen when the loans can't be paid by our kids? Probably nothing I suspect. 2billion Chinese taking ownership of and moving into their homes? I doubt it.

Youn can probably tell that I am no economist, BUT (and there's always a 'but' after a statement like that!), why is anything worth what we think it's worth? Because someone (usually an Bank), is willing to lend to someone so that they can buy it. When that stops, we are back to the horse and cart, folks.

These fancy and highly provacative systems of commerce are just BS. But I can't see or imagine there to be any other way. They told us the world world stop turning in 2008. It hasn't and as has been posted to earlier, sub-prime loans are still here.

I had a bonkers offer from Astion Martin via email on Friday. The fact they are offering what they are, just backs this all up.

Don't worry so much guys. The tossers will always keep tossing, just to keep the wheels greased. Don't let the economy streer your vote. Candidates have much more they could be doing to improve the state of the human race, without worrying about the economic strategies.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Seriously though, looking ahead, long after we have all departed, what would happen when the loans can't be paid by our kids? Probably nothing I suspect. 2billion Chinese taking ownership of and moving into their homes? I doubt it.

What do you think will happen, and, do you care what happens to your great grand children?

I've always thought about how many more boys are born in China than girls. That makes for an angry/horny group of men in their prime. When the West can't afford to buy their products anymore, I imagine some future leader of China saying, "Want a woman, well, there's plenty of them over in _________ (name your country), go get 'em!"

 

[Jim Craik]

Mr Fechter,

You continually bring up China, I guess you greatly fear them. You are wasting your time.

GDP per person China...............................$8,383
GDP per person USA.................................$48,387

 

[Bob Fechter]

Candidates have much more they could be doing to improve the state of the human race, without worrying about the economic strategies.

All politicians can do is take from one group and give to another. You may think that's nobel and all, but it has diminishing returns.

The one entity that has enriched mankind through the centuries has been free enterprise.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Mr Fechter,

You continually bring up China, I guess you greatly fear them. You are wasting you time.

GDP per person China...............................$8,383
GDP per person USA.................................$48,387

So, you wish to change the subject from the stock market now. Fine.

Could the GDP of China vs. the USA have anything to do with collectivism?

 

[Mark]

Of course I worry about the future we will leave to our children. I will respectfully leave it to our children to worry about our grandchildren. When I have a grand child, perhaps that view may change? I don't honestly know.

What I will say however, is if we could go back in time and ask our grandparents if, when they we were young (i mean at working ages), they would have condoned the need for a loan for everything, the need to have two cars minimum per house hold, mobile phones and internet access for every single memeber of the family, let alone TV's in every room etc etc, they would probably have screamed at us and said something like, "if you need all that, then you need a good slap"!

Previous generations seem to have had a far better grasp on reality than our generation has.

So, if our grandp[arents couldn't have forseen what we NEED and therefore M UST pay to have, then how can we presume to understand what our childrens' needs or expectations will be? I am not preparred to accept that they will need what we need, or perhaps need even more?

Perhaps if we spent more on education, our childerns will be better placed to get a grip on reality and put to rights what we took for granted?

We have lived through times of excess. Maybe, just maybe, our children's children will come to realise that we knew nothing? Or are you suggesting that because we have grown accustomed to all this sh1t we seem to NEED, that by definition, we must strive to force this crap onto them too?

 

[Bob Fechter]

Mark, I don't know where I said that all this "Shit" should be forced on our grand kids. I did say that all this debt IS being forced onto them.

And, what seems to be the current regime's answer? We need to spend more than we take in for at least the next ten years.

As for our parents, they wrote themselves a sweetheart retirement deal, bred enough kids to pay for it, and then convinced us that there are too many people in the world, so don't breed kids, which leaves us watching the Western countries getting repopulated with Third Worlders to pay for our retirements. Which, of course, again screws our children/grand children.

 

[Jim Craik]

So, you wish to change the subject from the stock market now. Fine

I'd be happy to talk about the stock market, I have made back more than everything I lost under the Republicans.

Mr Fechter, you would have let the banks fail.
You would have let Wall Street fail.
You would have let the auto industry fail.

Mr Fechter, please tell us where you think our economy would be if anyone listend to you?

Another Republican in a similar position did just what you suggested, it was Herbert Hoover and that led directly to the Great Depression.

Thank God some folks learn from the past.

 

[Mark]

Mark, I don't know where I said that all this "Shit" should be forced on our grand kids. I did say that all this debt IS being forced onto them.

And, what seems to be the current regime's answer? We need to spend more than we take in for at least the next ten years.

As for our parents, they wrote themselves a sweetheart retirement deal, bred enough kids to pay for it, and then convinced us that there are too many people in the world, so don't breed kids, which leaves us watching the Western countries getting repopulated with Third Worlders to pay for our retirements. Which, of course, again screws our children/grand children.

Interesting point on breeding Bob. You are probably right there. Our parents do seem to have bred more prolifically than our generation has. However, we seem to need nannies and house keepers, where as our parents were able to survive by mom staying at home to raise us. We need nannies, because we need both parents to be wage earners just to get by. Therefore we need immigrant workers to fill the roles of nanny and house-keeper.

You seem to be dengrating the notion of bail-outs for big business etc? Please forgive me and correct me if wrong. I am saying that sub-prime loans got us into this shit, and sub-prime loans are the only way to get us out of it. Screwed up? Totally, YES! But what is the alternative? We NEED so much SHIT apparently. If no-one can afford to buy it, who can afford to make it?

My point is that it is all FUBAR.

I am not saying that we should force this shit on our children, but it is our children that want 200 dollar sneakers and a mobile phone. I was happy with just a bike and a couple of sticks to rub together when I was a kid!

 

[Bob Fechter]

Bankruptcy/chapter 11 would have brought uncompetitive wages down to competitive levels. But, because of government interference, existing UAW workers didn't take pay cuts. this puts the average UAW worker's wages @ $39.68 plus added benefits @ $33.58 for slapping on hubcaps.

Wall Street needs to correct. The longer you put it off with artificial stimulants (newly printed money) the worse the correction will be. There will be a 50% downward correction IMHO, but hey, we've put it off for someone else to deal with.

A lot of banks failed anyway, haven't they. Gee, craik, you better watch out you're sounding like a one percenter here!

The Great Depression would have been a "so so" recession if we wouldn't have had a Socialist/Democrat running things into the ground with all that spending. And after it's all said and done, it took World War to get out of it, the only war, by the by, liberals celebrate because it made the socialist agenda of the party seem legit.

"Folks" can't learn from the past anymore because history has been revised out of all recognition by the Brave New World of liberal education.

I'd be happy to talk about the stock market, I have made back more than everything I lost under the Republicans.

Mr Fechter, you would have let the banks fail.
You would have let Wall Street fail.
You would have let the auto industry fail.

Mr Fechter, please tell us where you think our economy would be if anyone listend to you?

Another Republican in a similar position did just what you suggested, it was Herbert Hoover and that led directly to the Great Depression.

Thank God some folks learn from the past.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Mark!

It doesn't have to be FUBAR!

Ignore the little man behind the curtain. The family is under attack, and is split by the necessity of man and wife having to work to meet tax obligations. Solution, audit the government!

Kids will still end up playing with the box all that junk came in and they'll start putting baseball cards on their bikes when they realize that the baseball card market has collapsed:~)

Make it possible for small business to operate again, and the old Henry Ford ideas will start taking over the market again.

Small government, my man, that's the ticket!!!!

Interesting point on breeding Bob. You are probably right there. Our parents do seem to have bred more prolifically than our generation has. However, we seem to need nannies and house keepers, where as our parents were able to survive by mom staying at home to raise us. We need nannies, because we need both parents to be wage earners just to get by. Therefore we need immigrant workers to fill the roles of nanny and house-keeper.

You seem to be dengrating the notion of bail-outs for big business etc? Please forgive me and correct me if wrong. I am saying that sub-prime loans got us into this shit, and sub-prime loans are the only way to get us out of it. Screwed up? Totally, YES! But what is the alternative? We NEED so much SHIT apparently. If no-one can afford to buy it, who can afford to make it?

My point is that it is all FUBAR.

I am not saying that we should force this shit on our children, but it is our children that want 200 dollar sneakers and a mobile phone. I was happy with just a bike and a couple of sticks to rub together when I was a kid!

 

[Jim Craik]

I was looking for info on Bank failures and I found some very interesting numbers. This is the number of FDIC bank failures since the FDIC was established in 1934.

*********************

You can view the history of bank failures since the establishment of the FDIC below:

Year - Number of Bank Failures

2012</B> - 36
2011</B> - 92
2010</B> - 157
2009</B> - 140
2008</B> - 30
2007</B> - 3
2006</B> - 0
2005</B> - 0
2004</B> - 4
2003</B> - 3
2002</B> - 11
2001</B> - 4
2000</B> - 7
1999</B> - 8
1998</B> - 3
1997</B> - 1
1996</B> - 6
1995</B> - 8
1994</B> - 15
1993</B> - 50
1992</B> - 181
1991</B> - 271
1990</B> - 382
1989</B> - 534
1988</B> - 470
1987</B> - 262
1986</B> - 204
1985</B> - 180
1984</B> - 106
1983</B> - 99
1982</B> - 119
1981</B> - 40
1980</B> - 22
1979</B> - 10
1978</B> - 7
1977</B> - 6
1976</B> - 17
1975</B> - 13
1974</B> - 4
1973</B> - 6
1972</B> - 2
1971</B> - 7
1970</B> - 7
1969</B> - 9
1968</B> - 3
1967</B> - 4
1966</B> - 7
1965</B> - 5
1964</B> - 7
1963</B> - 2
1962</B> - 1
1961</B> - 5
1960</B> - 1
1959</B> - 3
1958</B> - 4
1957</B> - 1
1956</B> - 2
1955</B> - 5
1954</B> - 2
1953</B> - 2
1952</B> - 3
1951</B> - 2
1950</B> - 4
1949</B> - 4
1948</B> - 3
1947</B> - 5
1946</B> - 1
1945</B> - 1
1944</B> - 2
1943</B> - 5
1942</B> - 20
1941</B> - 15
1940</B> - 43
1939</B> - 60
1938</B> - 74
1937</B> - 75
1936</B> - 69
1935</B> - 25
1934</B> - 9
***************************
Franklin Roosevelt in 13 years had approximately 398 FDIC Bank failures

Barack Obama in 3+ years has had 425 FDIC Bank failures

But the all time record was set by...............................

During the 12 years of Ronald Reagan and George H W Bush, there were ********2,848*******FDIC Bank failures

2,848 Bank failures, those Republicans can really destroy an economy.

 

[Jim Craik]

This data is very illuminating.

In the 36 years from Harry Truman through Jimmy Carter there were a total of 175 FDIC Bank failures.

Then the Great Ronald Regan became President, in the next 12 years he and GHW Bush ruled over *****2,848*****FDIC Bank failures. You know that "We The People" paid for all those FDIC Insured losses! You OK with that?

COULD THAT REALLY BE AN INCREASE IN ONLY 12 YEARS OF 1,527%

At the same time these two Conservatives raised the National Debt by 244%

If you add in BushII, the last three Consevative Presidents have raised the National debt by 333%




You folks say that you care about the debt and our Childeren, if that is really true then you need to become Democrats!

So, what about Obama, you say...........


President Obama through the start of 2012 has raised the National debt by 41%

Yes thats right 41%

Before you post that data, I suggest you check it with Snopes and Factcek.org
****************
The last 3 Democratic Presidents through the start of 2012 raised the debt.....119%
The last 3 Republican Presidents have raised the debt by.............................333%

We must not support Consevatives, we can not afford them!!!!!!!

 

[Tom P]

This data is very illuminating.

In the 36 years from Harry Truman through Jimmy Carter there were a total of 175 FDIC Bank failures.

Then the Great Ronald Regan became President, in the next 12 years he and GHW Bush ruled over *****2,848*****FDIC Bank failures. You know that "We The People" paid for all those FDIC Insured losses! You OK with that?

COULD THAT REALLY BE AN INCREASE IN ONLY 12 YEARS OF 1,527%

At the same time these two Conservatives raised the National Debt by 244%

If you add in BushII, the last three Consevative Presidents have raised the National debt by 333%




You folks say that you care about the debt and our Childeren, if that is really true then you need to become Democrats!

So, what about Obama, you say...........


President Obama through the start of 2012 has raised the National debt by 41%

Yes thats right 41%

Before you post that data, I suggest you check it with Snopes and Factcek.org
****************
The last 3 Democratic Presidents through the start of 2012 raised the debt.....119%
The last 3 Republican Presidents have raised the debt by.............................333%

We must not support Consevatives, we can not afford them!!!!!!!

That last line is quite funny Jim, these are actual number, not a percentage of a growing number.
Page 3 - National Debt by President: LBJ to Obama - TheStreet
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

National debt with interest.
Carter $281 billion 4 years
Reagan $1.76 trillion 8 years
GH Bush $1.43 trillion 4 years
Clinton $1.53 trillion 8 years
GW Bush $4.89 trillion 8 years
Obama $5.29 trillion 3 years 9 months
Looks a bit different with real dollar amounts

At this rate Obama will have a national debt of over $20 trillion by 2016 if re-elected

 

[Tom P]

I'd be happy to talk about the stock market, I have made back more than everything I lost under the Republicans.

Mr Fechter, you would have let the banks fail.
You would have let Wall Street fail.
You would have let the auto industry fail.

Mr Fechter, please tell us where you think our economy would be if anyone listend to you?

Another Republican in a similar position did just what you suggested, it was Herbert Hoover and that led directly to the Great Depression.

Thank God some folks learn from the past.

Jim, You were doing the investing that you lost and made money on. You make it sound as if the Republicans were handling your bad investments and Democrats your good investments.

 

[Jim Craik]

Tom,

The economy has grown substantially since Reagan, dollar changes show nothing, percent change is really the only way to fairly judge changes.

US GDP at start of FDR's Presidency: $58 Billion
US GDP at start of Reagan's Presidency: $3,253 Billion
US GDP at start of Obamas Presidency: $14,369 Billion
US GDP 2 days ago 15,596 Billion

Tom, you do want to be fair don't you?

 

[Jim Craik]

Jim, You were doing the investing that you lost and made money on. You make it sound as if the Republicans were handling your bad investments and Democrats your good investments.

No Tom,

They were 90% the same stocks, the Dow declined under BushII and has gone up under Obama.

 

[Bob Fechter]

The only reason the market is "up" is because the Fed pumped a bunch of newly printed money into the market. Period. That is false value that we will be penalized for generations to come.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Finally had time to run down you bogus bar chart, and of course, its from that stalwart of journalistic neutrality Rachel Maddow, hosted by MSNBC!!

I mean what better source can we come up with?

Once again, craik playing loosey goosey with the statistical sleight of hand, I'm charmed as usual craik.

This data is very illuminating.

In the 36 years from Harry Truman through Jimmy Carter there were a total of 175 FDIC Bank failures.

Then the Great Ronald Regan became President, in the next 12 years he and GHW Bush ruled over *****2,848*****FDIC Bank failures. You know that "We The People" paid for all those FDIC Insured losses! You OK with that?

COULD THAT REALLY BE AN INCREASE IN ONLY 12 YEARS OF 1,527%

At the same time these two Conservatives raised the National Debt by 244%

If you add in BushII, the last three Consevative Presidents have raised the National debt by 333%




You folks say that you care about the debt and our Childeren, if that is really true then you need to become Democrats!

So, what about Obama, you say...........


President Obama through the start of 2012 has raised the National debt by 41%

Yes thats right 41%

Before you post that data, I suggest you check it with Snopes and Factcek.org
****************
The last 3 Democratic Presidents through the start of 2012 raised the debt.....119%
The last 3 Republican Presidents have raised the debt by.............................333%

We must not support Consevatives, we can not afford them!!!!!!!