G
Guest
Guest
I love the roadster version. I'd really like to see that develop.
Paul
Paul
Where is the Factory Five of GT40s?
- Thread starter MikeDD
- Start date
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gt40campi:
I love the roadster version. I'd really like to see that develop.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I like the roadster version as well...and not just because I'm claustrophobic!
I haven't approached the body guy about it (yet!). I figured I'd do the 'standard' version first!
I'm sure he's going to be quite suprised when he sees the picture!
Your pal,
Meat.
I love the roadster version. I'd really like to see that develop.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I like the roadster version as well...and not just because I'm claustrophobic!
I haven't approached the body guy about it (yet!). I figured I'd do the 'standard' version first!
I'm sure he's going to be quite suprised when he sees the picture!
Your pal,
Meat.
Meat, Hey! I cut the roof off the FFR Daytona Coupe to make it a convertible, doing a GT40 roadster doesn't seem all that hard. The frame around the windshield would be a little tough to make though. The "A" pillars are thin between the doors & the windshield. Also, I think a true roadster had a different shaped windshield. Are these availible????? I have a nice black & white photo of a GT40 roadster that Roy Lund of Ford sent me taken by Dave Friedman back in 1965. I'll have to look at it a little closer now!
M40 Update #1:
Chassis description: The M40 chassis will be a semi-monocoque design (a steel chassis with stressed alloy panels), set up to meet SCCA homologation standards for safety. It will include a roll cage structure at mid bulkhead and a forward hoop located at the dash/footbox area. Torsional lbs/degree will be noted after testing.
The chassis is being designed from the start to utilize as many off the shelf (or "off the donor") parts as possible (everything else will be in the kit). These are proven parts, and are all available from a single donor vehicle, or they can be purchased new from either a dealership or from stores like AutoZone, Pep Boys or other auto parts supply shops. These parts include (this is not a complete list) front uprights, rear uprights, brake assemblies, wheels, complete pedal assembly, rack and pinion unit, radiator, complete steering column, shift mechanism, handbrake, engine, gearbox and halfshafts.
The target design weight of the chassis is ~1,450 lbs.
Keep in mind that there is a fairly sizable aftermarket out there that can supply anything from bigger brakes to gummier tires, all the way up through a hot rod engine and engine management system; I am not using an unknown or unsupported car as the donor!
These are preliminary bulletins. As the M40 gets closer and closer to production, some of these items may change.
Your pal,
Meat.
Chassis description: The M40 chassis will be a semi-monocoque design (a steel chassis with stressed alloy panels), set up to meet SCCA homologation standards for safety. It will include a roll cage structure at mid bulkhead and a forward hoop located at the dash/footbox area. Torsional lbs/degree will be noted after testing.
The chassis is being designed from the start to utilize as many off the shelf (or "off the donor") parts as possible (everything else will be in the kit). These are proven parts, and are all available from a single donor vehicle, or they can be purchased new from either a dealership or from stores like AutoZone, Pep Boys or other auto parts supply shops. These parts include (this is not a complete list) front uprights, rear uprights, brake assemblies, wheels, complete pedal assembly, rack and pinion unit, radiator, complete steering column, shift mechanism, handbrake, engine, gearbox and halfshafts.
The target design weight of the chassis is ~1,450 lbs.
Keep in mind that there is a fairly sizable aftermarket out there that can supply anything from bigger brakes to gummier tires, all the way up through a hot rod engine and engine management system; I am not using an unknown or unsupported car as the donor!
These are preliminary bulletins. As the M40 gets closer and closer to production, some of these items may change.
Your pal,
Meat.
Meat
Make sure you isolate the steel and alloy in your chassis.
Make sure you isolate the steel and alloy in your chassis.
Jim,
Do you mean to imply that dis-similar metals corrosion would be an issue? Like when Ford released the 77 Lincoln Mark V with a steel bumper and a aluminun bumper reinforcement? Took only one winter here in the land of copious salt use for bumpers to start falling off!
Or the motor home a friend bought that had aluminum pop rivets holding the fiberglass lower panels to steel brackets. Do you know what the half-life of an aluminum rivet is in Buffalo? Can be measured in minutes....
Rick
Do you mean to imply that dis-similar metals corrosion would be an issue? Like when Ford released the 77 Lincoln Mark V with a steel bumper and a aluminun bumper reinforcement? Took only one winter here in the land of copious salt use for bumpers to start falling off!
Or the motor home a friend bought that had aluminum pop rivets holding the fiberglass lower panels to steel brackets. Do you know what the half-life of an aluminum rivet is in Buffalo? Can be measured in minutes....
Rick
Jim,
Do you mean to imply that Eric Broadly did not anticipate driving in snow? I find it somewhat amusing that people are surprised how much corrosion and rot there is in old race cars. No one seems to remember that in the 60's when race technology was taking quantum leaps every year if not every few months that there was nothing more worthless than "last years racecar".
There was no corrosion proofing in a GT 40 cause FAV never thought they would need to last that long. I am sure they thought that the chassis would either be crashed and written off or junked as obsolete long before anyone "cared" to save them.
Same reason that the Germans did not use zinc chromate on the ally of their warplanes, they never expected them to last long enough for it to be an issue.
With the treatments and processes available today it is easy to prepare a chassis to last longer than the owner.
Rick
Do you mean to imply that Eric Broadly did not anticipate driving in snow? I find it somewhat amusing that people are surprised how much corrosion and rot there is in old race cars. No one seems to remember that in the 60's when race technology was taking quantum leaps every year if not every few months that there was nothing more worthless than "last years racecar".
There was no corrosion proofing in a GT 40 cause FAV never thought they would need to last that long. I am sure they thought that the chassis would either be crashed and written off or junked as obsolete long before anyone "cared" to save them.
Same reason that the Germans did not use zinc chromate on the ally of their warplanes, they never expected them to last long enough for it to be an issue.
With the treatments and processes available today it is easy to prepare a chassis to last longer than the owner.
Rick
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MK -IV J6:
Meat
Make sure you isolate the steel and alloy in your chassis.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you! I have great confidence in the chassis designer, but I'll go ahead and forward this. Just to be sure.
Your pal,
Meat.
Meat
Make sure you isolate the steel and alloy in your chassis.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you! I have great confidence in the chassis designer, but I'll go ahead and forward this. Just to be sure.
Your pal,
Meat.
Rick
Hey before I rebuilt my Lola tub at least you could remove the suspention without having to unbolt something. All you had to do was pull.
Jim
Hey before I rebuilt my Lola tub at least you could remove the suspention without having to unbolt something. All you had to do was pull.
Jim
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MK -IV J6:
Make sure you isolate the steel and alloy in your chassis.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The official word back from the chassis guy is that there's to be 3M acrylic adhesive tape between the alloy and the steel, stainless rivets, and that he's recommending powder coating prior to the installation of the alloy panelling.
Your pal,
Meat.
Make sure you isolate the steel and alloy in your chassis.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The official word back from the chassis guy is that there's to be 3M acrylic adhesive tape between the alloy and the steel, stainless rivets, and that he's recommending powder coating prior to the installation of the alloy panelling.
Your pal,
Meat.
You may want to consider electrostatic chassis painting rather than powder painting.
IMHO powder painting, when subjected to pressure flexing chips badly. Even though it sometimes stays monolithic it pulls away from the surface and can trap moisture.
IMHO one should never Powder paint mag wheels for that reason.
Also pay attention to electric grounding procedures
IMHO powder painting, when subjected to pressure flexing chips badly. Even though it sometimes stays monolithic it pulls away from the surface and can trap moisture.
IMHO one should never Powder paint mag wheels for that reason.
Also pay attention to electric grounding procedures
Along the same lines on the corrosion, if you are going to use steel frame and aluminum panels and stainless rivets you will have dissimilar metals corrosion, primarily between the aluminum and stainless. I spoke with my brother on this, and for all the military hardware his company builds, they 'wet-thread' all the bolts and rivets with zinc chromate. Basically, they dip them in liquid zinc chromate and then utilize the fastener. This keeps oxegen out of the joint and provides insulation between the two metals. Other people use epoxy, but that would be a mother to get apart (I think this is what Carroll Smith recommends). I know you can get liquid zinc chromate from Aircraft Spruce, just remember its a heavy metal and must be disposed of properly. I spoke with a structural engineer about this and he too recommends the zinc chromate route.
On the other hand, if you have a bolted connection and the holes inside the connection are fully coated, then the epoxy (which is what we use in structural work) will provide enough insulation at 4.0 mils dry film thickness to turn off dissimilar corrosion.
On the other hand, if you have a bolted connection and the holes inside the connection are fully coated, then the epoxy (which is what we use in structural work) will provide enough insulation at 4.0 mils dry film thickness to turn off dissimilar corrosion.
Hi Ron
Just a thought on dissimilar corrosion, I think if an earth strap to ground were fitted between the chassis and ground (road) may help to reduce the effects.
I know that it will not stop it altogether but it should help by reducing the built up static charge in the frame.
Regards
Chris
[ January 26, 2003: Message edited by: Chris Melia ]
Just a thought on dissimilar corrosion, I think if an earth strap to ground were fitted between the chassis and ground (road) may help to reduce the effects.
I know that it will not stop it altogether but it should help by reducing the built up static charge in the frame.
Regards
Chris
[ January 26, 2003: Message edited by: Chris Melia ]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MK -IV J6:
"...You may want to consider electrostatic chassis painting rather than powder painting.
IMHO powder painting, when subjected to pressure flexing chips badly. Even though it sometimes stays monolithic it pulls away from the surface and can trap moisture.
IMHO one should never Powder paint mag wheels for that reason.
Also pay attention to electric grounding procedures..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks again! I don't know if - with the panelling set up as described above - galvanic corrosion can occur without a large electric potential in the chassis, but I do absolutely agree with you that the chassis should always be properly grounded.
As mentioned, I'm not the chassis engineering firm laying out my chassis - and they already knew exactly what you were talking about when I sent them the email. I feel even more confident about the chassis now. Keep the input coming!
Your pal,
Meat.
"...You may want to consider electrostatic chassis painting rather than powder painting.
IMHO powder painting, when subjected to pressure flexing chips badly. Even though it sometimes stays monolithic it pulls away from the surface and can trap moisture.
IMHO one should never Powder paint mag wheels for that reason.
Also pay attention to electric grounding procedures..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks again! I don't know if - with the panelling set up as described above - galvanic corrosion can occur without a large electric potential in the chassis, but I do absolutely agree with you that the chassis should always be properly grounded.
As mentioned, I'm not the chassis engineering firm laying out my chassis - and they already knew exactly what you were talking about when I sent them the email. I feel even more confident about the chassis now. Keep the input coming!
Your pal,
Meat.
There is a new update on the Single-Donor M40 replica that I'm working on. This update is available online at:
http://www.cobratrader.com/html/M40Dash.htm
If you want to make sure that you get the latest and greatest updates, you really should think about signing up for the mailing list; not all updates are HTML pages. Only the image updates will be available online, the rest are contained in the email(s). To sign up for the email list, send an email to [email protected] .
This is the second update.
Your pal,
Meat.
[ February 11, 2003: Message edited by: meat ]
http://www.cobratrader.com/html/M40Dash.htm
If you want to make sure that you get the latest and greatest updates, you really should think about signing up for the mailing list; not all updates are HTML pages. Only the image updates will be available online, the rest are contained in the email(s). To sign up for the email list, send an email to [email protected] .
This is the second update.
Your pal,
Meat.
[ February 11, 2003: Message edited by: meat ]
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Another interesting thread...friends of mine are restoring a Bizzarrini which has a light-alloy body riveted to a steel tube frame/pan chassis. Same problem. The rivets, which are aluminum, are subjected to dissimilar metal attack and corrode very quickly, especially in the presence of an electrolyte like salt water. Aluminum, being less noble than steel, gets eaten up quickly. Using steel rivets would help a little, but you would still have the problem of steel attacking a small hole in the aluminum, which would then get enlarged and loose as the galvanic attack continued.
In shipbuilding, they either isolate the rivets with delrin sleeves, or they use a bonding strip which is aluminum on one side and steel on the other, which can be welded in between. This isn't practical for our types of construction, so bonding adhesives or coated fasteners are used. Another method would be to paint all the assemblies before they are riveted together, but you run the risk of the paint film cracking and allowing electrical contact.
And, if you want to know more (lots more) about this, there is an excellent book called Metal Corrosion in Boats, by Nigel Warren (International Marine). We are not working on boats, but the theories are useful in any event.
In shipbuilding, they either isolate the rivets with delrin sleeves, or they use a bonding strip which is aluminum on one side and steel on the other, which can be welded in between. This isn't practical for our types of construction, so bonding adhesives or coated fasteners are used. Another method would be to paint all the assemblies before they are riveted together, but you run the risk of the paint film cracking and allowing electrical contact.
And, if you want to know more (lots more) about this, there is an excellent book called Metal Corrosion in Boats, by Nigel Warren (International Marine). We are not working on boats, but the theories are useful in any event.