Why am I conservative??

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Mark,

The data I spoke of is the Reagan, BushII massive increse in spending, while at the same time cutting taxes. We have posted that data over and over. Without their "huge increase in spending, while cutting taxes", we would not be in this problem.

I find it interesting that in Veeks initial post, his first concerns for his grandaughter are that she might not get Medicare and Social Security. Two programs that if consevatives got their way, would never have been available in the first place.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Yes I'm griping because I am afraid for the future of my Granddaughter and her generation and liberal answers aren't working. Please give me any factual evidence that Emily will have a better life than our generation?... What I'm hearing as the message given to the Tea Party, conservatives, Paul Ryan, and Simpson Bowles which is "sit down and shut up". "We'll worry about it later", when it is Emily's problem. That's just not good enough.

Your concern is not a new one, Veek. My daughter was born in 1984 and I remember looking for a second, part-time job to help with the increased family expenses. As we were talking after one of the interviews, I mentioned that this was the first time in my memory when it seemed that the younger generation seemed to have little hope of having a better life than their parents' generation. She's 28 now....and, sadly, I still don't think it's in the cards for her as she just can't seem to get it together and take college seriously. All of her high school friends, though, have managed college and are at least earning a livable wage, whereas I find it still necessary to support my daughter to the tune of $500/month, and she does NOT lead any sort of "priveleged" life, just works 40+ hours/week and rents (with a room-mate) a modest apartment. How have the conservative "answers" worked for her?????

As for the message to which you referred, I firmly assert that the conservative agenda is not helping our children's generation at all. The conservative's answers aren't helping, either, (they are actually creating MORE anger among the general population) and as I look around I fear that we're really headed for "class warfare". Remember Marie Antoinette and her "...let them eat cake" comment....didn't work out too well for her, won't work for the conservatives and their efforts to keep the 99% under their thumb.

...how long before the masses arise in revolt against their greedy rulers again? IMHO we could reduce the possibilities of that by a minor redistribution of wealth and by emphasing governmental support for individuals rather than wealthy businesses. That will take rewriting the tax codes, or revising our taxation system completely.

Cheers!

Doug
 

Pat

Supporter
Your concern is not a new one, Veek. My daughter was born in 1984 and I remember looking for a second, part-time job to help with the increased family expenses. As we were talking after one of the interviews, I mentioned that this was the first time in my memory when it seemed that the younger generation seemed to have little hope of having a better life than their parents' generation. She's 28 now....and, sadly, I still don't think it's in the cards for her as she just can't seem to get it together and take college seriously. All of her high school friends, though, have managed college and are at least earning a livable wage, whereas I find it still necessary to support my daughter to the tune of $500/month, and she does NOT lead any sort of "priveleged" life, just works 40+ hours/week and rents (with a room-mate) a modest apartment. How have the conservative "answers" worked for her?????

As for the message to which you referred, I firmly assert that the conservative agenda is not helping our children's generation at all. The conservative's answers aren't helping, either, (they are actually creating MORE anger among the general population) and as I look around I fear that we're really headed for "class warfare". Remember Marie Antoinette and her "...let them eat cake" comment....didn't work out too well for her, won't work for the conservatives and their efforts to keep the 99% under their thumb.

...how long before the masses arise in revolt against their greedy rulers again? IMHO we could reduce the possibilities of that by a minor redistribution of wealth and by emphasing governmental support for individuals rather than wealthy businesses. That will take rewriting the tax codes, or revising our taxation system completely.

Cheers!

Doug

Doug, look at the numbers, there simply isn't enough wealth to redistribute to cover the governments fiscal commitments. That's why we're at a junction. I certainly agree that the tax code needs to be overhauled and goverment needs to get out of the subsidy business. It's all insanity and unsustainable. Your analogy to the French Revolution is a good one. At some point this will collapse under it's own weight as you're seeing in Greece.
Jeff, in 1940 there were 18 Army Divisions, there are now 10. They certainly are structured differently then they were then with far more support troops and equipment to maintain.
Under the new budget, Divisional and non-divisional combat brigades are to go from 45 to 32. Mr. Obama wishes to cut the nuclear arsenal to 300 this is from 10,600 in 2002 (that is being reduced to 7,100 by the end of this year). The killer in the defense budget is the personnel costs. But if it is any consolation, my military retiree medical will go up 520% over the next four years. But it's still a good deal even though when I was drafted all those years ago they promised it would be for free.
I think you are taking some license asserting that Mr. Obama supports Simpson-Bowles. He uses some of their projections, some of their tax increases but none of the expense controls and $4 Trillion reductions. Had he supported it, there would be serious debt reduction in his budget proposal and not the debacle of raising the debit. In fact the budget would be more in line with Mr. Obama's own promises. Despite a nominal commitment to fiscal reform, the president’s budget calls for $3.7 trillion in spending. That’s more spending than occurred in fiscal year 2010. This spending will result in a projected net deficit of $1.6 trillion, the highest level of deficit in U.S. history. Back in 2010, the president promised to cut the deficit to $912 billion in 2011 and to $581 billion by 2012. Based on the president’s 2012 budget released last week, the deficits in 2011 and 2012 will be twice the size originally promised. In 2011, the deficit will be $1.6 trillion, not $912 billion. In 2012, the deficit is expected to be $1.1 trillion, not $581 million.
This is insanity and I find it incredible that anybody can support it.
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
We do need comprehensive change. Tax rates need to go up. Social Security retirement age needs to be pushed back. Something (I don't know what, other than single payer) needs to be done about Medicare. And yes, defense needs to be cut.

The only politician, and he's not perfect I"m not saying that, who seems to grasp that and cover most of those bases is the President.

That's the fix. The fix is NOT to scream no new taxes, refuse any cuts to defense spending, and then claim poor people on entitlements and the REPUBLICAN authored plan for health care reform (the insurance mandate) is bankrupting us.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Jeff, in 1940 there were 18 Army Divisions, there are now 10. They certainly are structured differently then they were then with far more support troops and equipment to maintain.
Posted by Veek

Veek, as you know the world has changed since 1940.

In 1940 there were two to three first world countries building huge Army, Navy & Air forces.

In 1940 the number of Army Divisions here in the US did not mean alot. What did matter at that time was Navy & Army Air corps.

We had very few modern Ships, 4-5 aircraft carriers, no modern battleships and perhaps 10 modern Cruisers.

Our Air Force had under 200 really modern aircraft.

Today, we many not have very many Army Divisions, but that means little.......

We have a huge Navy with 12+ modern Carriers, another 5-6 in storage. Our Airforce is better prepared than the next 2-3 countries combined.

No other countries are building large Armys, Large Navys or large Air Forces.

To try and say that we are weak like in 1940 is absurd.

Our Militay is stronger and better equiped than all the short term potential enemies combined.

What I wonder about is why are we now spending more on the military in adjusted dollars than we were spending under Reagan. The cold war is over!
 
Give it up Veek..these two guy's are so married to their political party it's not funny....a few posts ago you spoke about crap canning anyone democrat or republican that does not see the urgency of our nations situation,, and Mr.young says its because we're stopping Obama from fixing it........listen these two guys have no interest in your grand-daughters or my young daughters lives....I don't mean to be rude but I know who my enemies are and I know who needs to be defeated..
On a side note....these guys will never ever ever ever never ever never aim higher........GOD its amazing I mustered up enough strength to respond to any thread with Jim and Jeff in it, its such a waste of breath....
 

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
So you view me as an "enemy" because my political beliefs are different than yours?

Now THAT's American.

I'm an American. I respect your right to have a different political viewpoint than me. I also have an interest in our future (including that of your grand daughters, and daughters). Quite honestly, screw you for saying otherwise.

Give it up Veek..these two guy's are so married to their political party it's not funny....a few posts ago you spoke about crap canning anyone democrat or republican that does not see the urgency of our nations situation,, and Mr.young says its because we're stopping Obama from fixing it........listen these two guys have no interest in your grand-daughters or my young daughters lives....I don't mean to be rude but I know who my enemies are and I know who needs to be defeated..
On a side note....these guys will never ever ever ever never ever never aim higher........GOD its amazing I mustered up enough strength to respond to any thread with Jim and Jeff in it, its such a waste of breath....
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
That's exactly why I have "Automan" on "ingore", Jeff (the only time you see an "ignored" members comments is when they are quoted by others).

One of the biggest issues I see with the radical right is their egocentricity. They don't believe anyone could be right except themselves.

Talk about a failure to achieve conceptual development! If it weren't for our right to dissent, to disagree, to discuss, we'd be right where the radical right wants us as a country....under their thumb, subject to their various and sundry indignities.

I thought that was why our ancestors left England in the first place...to avoid being treated like trash by "royalty" and to find a place where they could meet and discuss important issues without fear.

God help us if the egocentric radical right ever gains the leadership....Automan's diatribe is exactly the manner in which the average American will be treated.

Not very "American", if you ask me.......believe me, despite his protestations to the contrary he DOES mean to be rude :thumbsdown: .

Cheers!

Doug
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
....I don't mean to be rude but I know who my enemies are and I know who needs to be defeated../QUOTE]Posted by Craig

Craig, last time you were here your enemies were "over privileged teachers".

Are they still your enemies, or have your handlers now moved on.

Craig, Veek started this thread with among other things, worries that his Grandaughter might not get Social Security and Medicare.

Those are two Liberal programs (your enemies) that Consevatives fought stongly against!

So Craig, are you against Veeks Grandaughter getting Social Security and Medicare, or are you now backing your enemies?
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
So Craig, are you against Veeks Grandaughter getting Social Security and Medicare, or are you now backing your enemies?

Well, Jim, I think we can see from our discussions here on this board that the radical right REALLY DOES believe in our entitlement programs (including unemployment benefits) when THEY can get them...they are only against them whenever they think the liberal population can get them :thumbsdown: .

It really appears to me that the "conservative" agenda is to conserve and grow their own wealth at the expense of those who can not afford it (which, according to your reference to previous posts by Automan, must include "overpriveleged teachers"....what a freakin' JOKE!!!).

Cheers!

Doug
 

Pat

Supporter
Posted by Veek

What I wonder about is why are we now spending more on the military in adjusted dollars than we were spending under Reagan. The cold war is over!

Jim,
The obvious answer is that we have funded two major operations in Southwest Asia, intervened in Libya as well as deploying troops in four countries in Africa and are committing more to the Southwest Pacific. Couple that with the massive cost of stealth technology integrated into all weapons systems, the cost of fuel (DoD is the largest single consumer of energy in the United States), a dramatic rise in personnel initiatives and costs ($377K per bunk to convert submarines to accommodate female sailors-more on that later, health care expense as baby boomer military retirees (like me) are now in the medical and pension systems) and it's gotten a lot more expensive than in Regan's time.
I had three tours as an Army Inspector General and trust me; there are plenty of places to cut the defense budget. The problem is that the administration is cutting combat power when they should (as should the entire Federal Government) cut the administrative overhead, pet projects and earmarked acquisitions the Pentagon doesn't need.
In military terms this is referred to as the “Tooth to Tail” ratio (T3R) of warfighters to support personnel and this is why the comparison from 1940 to today is valid and useful. Based on the table of organization, the combat component of a line World War II division (we had 89 of them) had a T3R ratio of 68 percent. This is much better than the Korean War’s 33 percent (including support based in Japan). In Vietnam, we had approximately 35 percent. In the European Cold War structure, we had 27 percent. In Desert Storm it improved slightly to 30 percent. By Iraq 2005 on the surface it seems to have improved to 40 percent unless you include contractor support and then it falls to 25% and therein lies the rub. We have too much "tail" and not enough "tooth" and this is the basis for my objections to the administration's proposals.
A great summation of the problem was summarized in a 2010 report by the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. The United States scored last in a recent study that examined how 33 major militaries spend funds on weapon systems - while potential U.S. rival Russia ranked third. The evaluation was published as a special defense issue of the firm's "McKinsey On Government" publication, which focuses on government management practices. The study examined how efficiently 33 nations that account for 90 percent of worldwide defense expenditures covering a range of functions. On personnel, the study examined the nations' tooth-to-tail ratios. Norway had the most favorable tooth-to-tail ratio, with its personnel breaking down as 54 percent tooth, 36 percent non-combat and 11 percent combat support. The United States was second-to-last with 16 percent tooth and 84 percent of its personnel in non-combat or combat support positions.
The average of all 33 nations was 26 percent tooth, 63 percent non-combat and 11 percent combat support. The McKinsey report also notes that some nations, such as France, are attempting to bring about a "dramatic reduction of administrative personnel through investment in IT systems and outsourcing of certain non-combat operations to the private sector." This is exactly what we need to do here.
A recent post about the British Navy was really funny, I took the liberty of sending it to some friends who are retired sailors and they said there was actually some truth to it. The British are installing special ventilation systems in submarines to accommodate pregnant sailors. I've served with women I'd have in combat with me in a minute, but PC goes a bit too far when you want to put pregnant troops in combat. I can't imagine how much it costs to refit a sub with maternity provisions.
If you have any interest in reading any of these studies or have serious problems sleeping, PM me and I can send some material your way.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Veek,

Fair enough, I know modern systems are much more compex and much more expensive. But we were also involved in little issues throughout the world, back in the cold war as well.

I just wonder.... I have heard for years, and just recently here on our fourm, that Reagan beat the USSR by out spending them (implying that we were over spending, but for a good cause). I wonder why we are still trying to out spend them?
 
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Pat

Supporter
Well, Jim, I think we can see from our discussions here on this board that the radical right REALLY DOES believe in our entitlement programs (including unemployment benefits) when THEY can get them...they are only against them whenever they think the liberal population can get them :thumbsdown: .


Doug

Doug, I guess those of us on the "radical right" think that entitlement programs need to be sustainable and scalable for the future. The expenses the programs are now spending are unsustainable by anyone's calculation. I want to take the pain now and rescale these programs to an affordable level with a level of funding, not borrowing to sustain them.
The president speaks of "fairness" when 49% of the country pays no Federal income tax. Nobody has been paying into Social Security for over a year. All the while 42% of every dollar the government spends is borrowed. Who is going to pay all that? How does this not turn into Greece? The total household net worth of ALL U.S. households fourth quarter of 2009 is $54.2 trillion. The total unfunded liabilities of the U.S. government (these include Social Security and Medicare) is $61.6 trillion. Total debt is $123 Trillion (The $15 trillion public debt is just a fraction of it). So you tell me how current policies are going to work. You can seize the entire net worth of every household in the U.S. and you still don't have even the unfunded liabilities covered. I don't want my Granddaughter to need unemployment, Medicare/Medicaid and pay into a Social Security system from which she will never get a benefit. This isn’t a zero sum game; I don’t want anybody to need unemployment, Medicare/Medicaid. I want a free and vibrant economy that makes these things unnecessary-for everybody. That's utopian of course but more realistic than historic quality of life outcomes in socialist economies. Today, Emily’s share of the national debt is already $400K and she's only 7 months old! That is our reality, admit it or not. We can change what it will be when she's 18 or 24 or retires in 2077 if elected officials take fiscal responsibilities seriously. That's what I'm asking and if they aren't on board with that, vote for somone that is.
I have surgery scheduled so I'll be out of pocket for a while. So please don't take my lack of posting as agreement to the inevitable counterpoints ;)
As before, I think I probably posted more than the crowd can bear anyway and as Craig suggests, cars and jokes are a lot more fun to chat about.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Veek,

I really hope this is nothing too serious. As I and several friends have had hospital stays recently, I know how rough it can be.

I want to wish you all the best My Friend, please keep us updated.

I'll try my best not to raise your blood pressure until you are back in fighting trim:)

When you are back I'd like to hear more about your Father-inlaws time on the Yorktown.
 
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Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Here's hoping things go well in the hospital, Veek!

We'll be waiting to hear you're back in great shape....

Cheers!

Doug
 

Pat

Supporter
I'm back in the saddle again! I personally want to thank all of you for the best wishes. They really mean a lot. All is well and I'm on the mend!
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Long May You Run, Veek!!!

Great to see you back, Veek! So glad you survived, best wishes for a full and speedy recovery!

While I don't personally subscribe to the Conservative philosophy, I must admit that your recent posts were helpful in understanding the mindset, mostly because they were lacking the usual insults to the liberal-leaning population offered by your partners in crime (think of LB here, for one, but trader and some others are equally guilty).

Respectful discourse is SO much better than hurling insults, thanks to you for being the voice of reason for the "opposition".

As a musician I tend to rely on musical themes for many of my posts....my choice for you here is a sentiment echoed in an old Neil Young tune....."Long May You Run" (it's about Neil's love for his Harley, if you haven't heard it you ought to search it out).

Cheers!!

Doug
 
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