windsor bench race

[keith]

Thinking of what I want out of this motor. I have almost no practical experience with Ford motors, or an endurance motor. The basic Plan:

Aluminum block ( 408" stroker)
Bore : 4.030
Stroke: 4.100
Rod; 6.250
CR: 11:1
AFR 195cc head
Roller cam/rockers
Needle cam bearing
4 stage dry sump
Forged piston
6800 - 7000 rpm

Additional stuff:
gas ported and friction coated pistons
180 headers/ceramic coated
Quick Fuel 850
? air gap intake
crank girdle
all arp bolts/studs
internal balanced
lightened flywheel
normal machine work - square/deck/line hone, etc
bronze bush push rod-guides
polished valley
knife-edged and polished crank

Any comments on packaging or concerns?
Can the Ford push-rods be set up as oilers?

 

[egoman/ Shawn Wedge]

That's not a 408 that's a 418

 

[Andy Green]

What are 'gas ported' pistons?
What's the advantage of a polished the valley?
Rgds,
Andy

 

[colin artus]

Why go undersquare on bore/stroke when you can use a 4.125 bore block?

 

[Bill Kearley]

With your first statement in mind maybe take a look at a crate motor !!

 

[DJ]

I have an actual 302 a4 trans am engi

What are 'gas ported' pistons?
What's the advantage of a polished the valley?
Rgds,
Andy
[/QUOTE
The polished valley is for quicker return of the engine oil to the sump.I have an engine that actually ran in the TransAm series in the 90s(302/A4) .It was built and campaigned by the constructors champion that year. The valley is polished.I had communicated with the builder around 2003 about the polished valley in the engine and thats what he told me.

 

[Jac Mac]

Thinking of what I want out of this motor. I have almost no practical experience with Ford motors, or an endurance motor. The basic Plan:

Aluminum block ( 408" stroker) ( Forget the extra stroke )
Bore : 4.030 ( 4.125")
Stroke: 4.100 ( 3.5'')
Rod; 6.250 ( longest you can find )
CR: 11:1
AFR 195cc head
Roller cam/rockers
Needle cam bearing
4 stage dry sump
Forged piston
6800 - 7000 rpm ( you be able to run up to 8000 )

Additional stuff:
gas ported and friction coated pistons
180 headers/ceramic coated
Quick Fuel 850
? air gap intake
crank girdle
all arp bolts/studs
internal balanced
lightened flywheel
normal machine work - square/deck/line hone, etc
bronze bush push rod-guides
polished valley
knife-edged and polished crank

Any comments on packaging or concerns?
Can the Ford push-rods be set up as oilers? ( yes oil goes up thru pushods )

 

[Chris]

Is that what you have or what you’re thinking of building?
What is your plan for the engine usage wise?

The less stroke the snappier and revvier it will be.

Mine is a fairly similar build :
9.2” SVO 402ci around 11:1
4.130 bore
3.75 crank
6” rods
Flat top pistons
225cc CNC profiler heads possibly shaft rockers
4 stage dry sump - valley return blocked off
Circa 260/260 0.650” lift cam
8 stack EFI

Will be easy 600+/530tq limited and 7500rpm+ with no issues.
Is actually much more than I need for a street engine but I got the bulk pieces for a very good price so couldn’t say no. Personally I’d have gone with a smaller stroke and longer rod if mine hadn’t come as a package and weren’t decent parts.
Is being built up at the moment.

 

[keith]

Many thanks to all for the thoughts. At this point the only parts I have squirrled away ( some not collected yet, put purchased) are the QF 850 carb , Superformance exhaust, Peterson dry sump and spares, short water pump, assortment of fittings, braided hose, full assortment of ARP bolts/studs/etc, hardware, mock up block and motor plates.

I would like to build out from the valvetrain so the the next round will be cam/rockers/pushrods/spings/retainers/bearings etc. Round two bottom end. Still looking at blocks, and slowly digesting small block build books to build a base.

 

[Neil]

The cam selection is going to be important. An 850 cfm carb may be a bit big; a 750 may be all you need and will give you better streetability.

I have an 850 cfm Procomp carb on my aluminum-block Donovan 383 but I'm running a Crower roller-rocker cam with 260/266 degrees duration @ 0.050". This is not a street car, though.

 

[Chris]

The cam selection is going to be important. An 850 cfm carb may be a bit big; a 750 may be all you need and will give you better streetability.

I have an 850 cfm Procomp carb on my aluminum-block Donovan 383 but I'm running a Crower roller-rocker cam with 260/266 degrees duration @ 0.050". This is not a street car, though.

How do you find that cams characteristics? Any videos of how it runs/idles? What lift do you have?

 

[Neil]

Videos of it idling and running:

and

My cam specs: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-00427

 

[Chris]

Sounds naughty.
V similar to what I’m looking at but I’ll be about mid .600’s lift

 

[keith]

Neil,
Sounds nice and have looked in a few times on your Manta Have you tried something other than a straight line with it? My combo is is for road coarse. Mostly track eventually, but I want to drive highways occaisonally to excersize the demons with my helpers. I loved my Donovan 417's. Would be nice if there was more innovation on this side of the 3. The learning curve is diametrically opposed for a motor built to live 100HRs @ under load.

The 850 was built by Olthoff for a 351 W track oriented GT40. There should be enough room in the QF for adjustment. Still looking at blocks and thinking about the cam tunnel work to make the most out of the valve train.

 

[Neil]

First, I have to admit that I know zilch about Ford engines My only brush with the Blue Oval was when they dropped out of racing in the early'70s I bought a 302 Trans-Am block and and a bunch of other engine parts from Holman-Moody for a genuine bargain. I later sold it, though.

My suspension is designed for good geometry and the brakes are good so it should be reasonably fast around a road course...if I could find one. My front suspension is Mustang II geometry. I had an opportunity to talk to the Ford designer responsible for that design, Chuck Weiss. My rear is Porsche 996 geometry using that aluminum upright. I had to modify the chassis pick-up points a little to reduce its bump steer. I suspect Porsche designed it to compensate for deflection under load in its rubber bushings. I use all spherical rod-end bearings in the 5-link design. Bonneville is normally a 2 or 5-mile full throttle run, closer to conditions found in NASCAR or off-shore boat racing than 12 second drag racing. Endurance is an important factor there. I was really taking it easy on my 157.458 mph run as there was a 160 mph speed limit in the class I entered last September. I only used 1st, 2nd, & 5th gear. I feel certain it will top 200+.

I do have another Manta Mirage, the showroom car at Manta Cars in Santa Ana, CA, that is street-legal. I haven't had it out in a long time; I need to rebuild the engine and get it re-licensed and back on the street. Here it is: