Yeah, these people vote

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
As for housing, clothing, food, medical/dental I have no problems with public support for those who do not have a method of providing those for themselves...they are all things that I think of as necessary for general life support and I am not hard-hearted enough to want those who cannot provide those things for themselves to be allowed to die without them...although there are certainly some of the "street people", homeless, whatever you want to call them who choose to live in the woods, alleys, cardboard boxes, behind convenience stores, etc. and that's their choice. The free medical/dental care could be provided by students who are studying medicine or dentistry and who could also benefit from the exposure to the situations/conditions they will need to deal with once they are out in the workforce as professionals. I WOULD like to see some sort of "Workfare" like I recall Clinton requiring...and like Pete mentioned...there are plenty of methods in which those receiving welfare could be put to "work" to help reduce the cost of public services and that should be acceptable to them, IMHO.

As for a "free car" and "free college"...no... but yes to (preferable to me if it would be available) a free municipal bus pass, since there is minimal impact on the cost of running a bus for yet one more passenger (or even more than one, when you take into account the impact PER PASSENGER) and if that would turn a welfare recipient into a working, taxpaying contributing member of our society by making sure they could get to their job I see no reason to oppose that.

I am also a proponent of vocational rehabilitation services if they will result in an injured individual being able to work and contribute to our society again. My experience with that involves a fall from 32' onto hard packed clay, resulting in a broken pelvis and two broken wrists, as well as some nerve damage somewhere along my spine (can't believe I survived it, much less avoided paralysis and have pretty much fully recovered from it). I was referred to Voc Rehab by my doctor who was certain I was not going to be able to work in the construction industry any more. I realized that further education would provide me with a manner in which to avoid that and was immediately accepted into the Speech Pathology program at the local university. The Voc rehab representative was absolutely LIVID because he could not help me...I already had a college degree and he could not pay for a graduate degree. He railed against the system, said he found it totally disgusting that he had to help drug addicts and criminals with benefits for vocational training and yet could not help an accomplished individual like me who might not be able to continue contributing at the level I had been just because I already had a (useless, for the most part) college education. As it turned out, Worker's Comp and S/S total temporary disability got me through the 2 year M.S. degree and I have since contributed at a much higher level than I had been prior to the industrial accident.

There really ARE some long-term benefits to spending some $$ on individuals who have fallen on hard times and I think I'm a splendid example. Without that S/S and W/C I'd have been left unable to support myself and would have needed to continue with whatever governmental supports for which I would have qualified. In the end, my contributions to our friends at the IRS have repaid those government $$ that were spent on me many times over and our society has benefited from that "investment"...perhaps those we have seen on JayWalking could be given some training and become contributing members such as I have instead of a drain on our economy?

I'm just sayin'......... :idea:

Cheers!

Doug

...my head is actually spinning after reading that, Doug. Seriously.

The U.S. govt has spent BAZILLIONS of dollars on "the war on poverty" since the Johnson years. There have been countless govt 'hand out' programs created since then that were designed to end it. And yet POVERTY IS S-T-I-L-L not only with us - but worse. One need only use the number of people on food stamps as a gauge to reach that conclusion. (We have a RECORD NUMBER of people on food stamps presently...which has happened during the Obama's "spreading-the-wealth-is-GOOD" admin).

So, I'm at a complete and total LOSS when it comes to understanding how you and your ilk can p-o-s-s-i-b-l-y think that more of the same will change diddly.

What's that classic definition of insanity again...???
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 70, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
...my head is actually spinning after reading that, Doug. Seriously.

The U.S. govt has spent BAZILLIONS of dollars on "the war on poverty" since the Johnson years. There have been countless govt 'hand out' programs created since then that were designed to end it. And yet POVERTY IS S-T-I-L-L not only with us - but worse. One need only use the number of people on food stamps as a gauge to reach that conclusion. (We have a RECORD NUMBER of people on food stamps presently...which has happened during the Obama's "spreading-the-wealth-is-GOOD" admin).

So, I'm at a complete and total LOSS when it comes to understanding how you and your ilk can p-o-s-s-i-b-l-y think that more of the same will change diddly.

What's that classic definition of insanity again...???
I think, Larry, that exactly the issue you present is an indication of what has been happening since the polarization of our political system caused such a disparity in beliefs regarding what is good for America between conservatives and liberals. It is, to me, just a splendid example of what happens when the ruling leadership makes it possible for the "haves" to get more while the "have-nots" lose what little they have, thereby ensuring that the rolls of welfare recipients will grow.

Looking for someone to "credit" for this terrible situation? Look at the conservative movement. To quote our favorite psychologist, Dr. Phil..."How's that working out for ya, America?"

As for insanity, I have long maintained that we need to change this pattern that has been developing since the days of Gee-Dub and his pattern of economic "gimmies" to the world of business....yep, we need to try something else, what we've been doing isn't working and we'd be "insane" to continue, as you so astutely pointed out in your post. Thank you for that.

Cheers!!

Doug
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Supporter
...yep, we need to try something else, what we've been doing isn't working and we'd be "insane" to continue, as you so astutely pointed out in your post. Thank you for that.
If someone as dedicated to liberal convictions/beliefs as you 'gets it'...there may still be hope for the USA, sir. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

'Appreciate your candor/honesty regarding the above, Doug. 'Yeeeew' have NO idea...'none at all, sir. ;)
:chug:
 

marc

Lifetime Supporter
I believe you don't like my views on voting. It don't matter since some people vote many more times than others and we don't care about that. but call them out for being taken care of by the state/fed and vote for more and you lite up like a christmas tree. Jeff wishes he was robin hood. Keith, are you one of his merry men. or was it men in tights. I just want a collection started to lock me out of the paddock. If you can. Free Speech Baby!
 
The Social Security Trust money LBJ put in the General Fund in 1967 was OUR money, not tax money. The government stuck it's hand in OUR pockets and stole from us. You may be right about Perry, I don't know much about him.
 

Keith

Moderator
I believe you don't like my views on voting. It don't matter since some people vote many more times than others and we don't care about that. but call them out for being taken care of by the state/fed and vote for more and you lite up like a christmas tree. Jeff wishes he was robin hood. Keith, are you one of his merry men. or was it men in tights. I just want a collection started to lock me out of the paddock. If you can. Free Speech Baby!

Definitely one of the Merry Men Marc. As for free speech, it ain't what it used to be...:shifty:

PS Robin was definitely a Hood first and foremost!
 
One of the joys of being self employed is that I get to pay the FICA tax twice on myself, once as an employer and once as an employee (I believe it's 6.2% each time, not 7.5%)
Steve, You are correct, it is 6.2% for employee and employer. 12.4% with interest over 45+ years is a lot of money. Take into account the people that die before or shortly after starting to collect, there should be no reason for the low return or running out of money. I'm sure government employees don't have that problem.
 
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