Young Gun slingers kill an Aussie

[Pete McCluskey.]

Stop and frisk in high crime areas.
Automatic jail time for unlawful gun possession
Long jail time for gun trafficking
Long jail time for violent gun related crimes
for starters.

That would go some way.
Automatic jail time for drug dealers
Automatic jail time for gang members who commit crime
Automatic jail time for any felon carrying or in possession of a gun.
Full disclosure and background checks on all applying for a gun licence.

And also stop pandering to minority groups at the risk of being called racist

 

[Jim Craik]

So Al, i see you are promoting stop and frisk, so you are ok with bypassing someones rights in the name of safety, that's very interesting.

That is exactly what I'm promoting.

Doesn't the 4th Amendment guarantee the right to privacy, prohibit warrentless search and illegal seizure of property.

So if you are promoting ignoring the 4th Amendment, how about the 2nd?


Al, you also said this.......

Automatic jail time for unlawful gun possession/QUOTE]

So I have a few questions,

If it is now possable to legally buy a gun at a gun show without a background check, or any record of that sale, if you are not a fellon, tell me when does possesing a gun become "unlawful". (I bought it at a gun show.........)

Also, if you can now sell guns at a gun show without making the buyer show ID or get a background check, what constitutes "gun trafficking" (I'm selling them at a gun show....)

Howard and Craig have made it clear that they do not go anywhere without their guns, if they are stopped and frisked, should they then be arrested, guns confiscated?

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I think the success of Stop and Frisk in NY proves the value. You want to stop killing, but you don't want to offend anyone? The Supreme Court doesn't have a problem with it. It's based on "reasonable suspicion", not random stops.
Terry stop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jim Craik]

Al, walking down the street is not "reasonable suspicion".

Tell us,

If as you say, seizing guns prevents crime, wouldn't seizing all the guns prevent even more crime?

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Stopping drunk drivers from driving would prevent death, stopping everyone from driving..................

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Just the word "seizing"........ scares TF out of me.

 

[Jim Craik]

So Al, i see you are promoting stop and frisk, so you are ok with bypassing someones rights in the name of safety, that's very interesting.

That is exactly what I'm promoting.

Doesn't the 4th Amendment guarantee the right to privacy, prohibit warrentless search and illegal seizure of property.

So if you are promoting ignoring the 4th Amendment, how about the 2nd?


Al, you also said this.......

Automatic jail time for unlawful gun possession/QUOTE]

So I have a few questions,

If it is now possable to legally buy a gun at a gun show without a background check, or any record of that sale, if you are not a fellon, tell me when does possesing a gun become "unlawful". (I bought it at a gun show.........)

Also, if you can now sell guns at a gun show without making the buyer show ID or get a background check, what constitutes "gun trafficking" (I'm selling them at a gun show....)

Howard and Craig have made it clear that they do not go anywhere without their guns, if they are stopped and frisked, should they then be arrested, guns confiscated?

Al you gave several ways that you say will stop the slaughter, I asked a few simple questions, care to answer?

 

[Robert May Eng.]

I think the success of Stop and Frisk in NY proves the value. You want to stop killing, but you don't want to offend anyone? The Supreme Court doesn't have a problem with it. It's based on "reasonable suspicion", not random stops.
Terry stop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is what happened in this country when stop and search was introduced.

Reading the Riots: 'Humiliating' stop and search a key factor in anger towards police | UK news | theguardian.com

London riots: Police stop and search blamed for tension that sparked Tottenham riots - Crime - London24

Bob

 

[Steve]

Guys,

Its very simple, most people are good, but not all. The problem is we cant tell ahead of time who will become a murderer.

Since we cant get rid of all the bad people, we must get rid of the guns.

Additionally, guns have a way on not only empowering people, but they also make people bold, brave, fearless, cocky, agressive and intimadating (all bad traits).

The Japanese have a long history with very few guns and little violence.

Except between 1931 nd 1945, during those years virually every man was given guns and almost overnight they became murdering savages.

In 1945, the US Govenment disarmed the Japanese (we know how), removing virtually all their guns, overnight they became peaceful docile people again.

With that logic we should ban cars, because we don't know who will turn out to be a crappy driver or, worse yet, a drunk driver killing people. Since there are more MVA deaths than gun-related deaths that would clearly stem the blood-shed more effectively.

Yeah, the Japanese are a peaceful people.......you clearly don't know much about Japanese history.

 

[Jim Craik]

[QUOTEYeah, the Japanese are a peaceful people.......you clearly don't know much about Japanese history.[/QUOTE]


Here is my exact quote:

"In 1945, the US Govenment disarmed the Japanese (we know how), removing virtually all their guns, overnight they became peaceful docile people again".


As you know, but chose to ignore, I was not talking about history, I was talking about after the US govenment removed all the guns, since then, they have been one of, if not the most peacful country in the world.

Murder rate per 100,000 people

USA......................4.8

Japan....................0.4

 

[Jim Craik]

Steve,

Are you OK with the thousands of gun deaths each year? If not, what do you think we should do to stop the slaughter of the American people?

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

So Al, i see you are promoting stop and frisk, so you are ok with bypassing someones rights in the name of safety, that's very interesting.

That is exactly what I'm promoting.

Doesn't the 4th Amendment guarantee the right to privacy, prohibit warrentless search and illegal seizure of property.

So if you are promoting ignoring the 4th Amendment, how about the 2nd?


Al, you also said this.......



Al you gave several ways that you say will stop the slaughter, I asked a few simple questions, care to answer?

You obviously did not read what the Supreme Court said, Terry stop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

It's not the slaughter that bothers you, if it were, drunk drivers, careless doctors, cigarettes, etc. would be far more because of the extent of the slaughter. You just want gun CONTROL.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

It's 12,000 guns compared to 30,000 drunk drivers, 190,000 medical, 500,000 tobacco or 33 per day compared to 82, or 520, or 1370 per day. That's some serious slaughter that doesn't even bother anyone, because it doesn't CONTROL anyone. In ten days tobacco kills more people than a years worth of guns.

 

[Steve]

[QUOTEYeah, the Japanese are a peaceful people.......you clearly don't know much about Japanese history.

Here is my exact quote:

"In 1945, the US Govenment disarmed the Japanese (we know how), removing virtually all their guns, overnight they became peaceful docile people again".


As you know, but chose to ignore, I was not talking about history, I was talking about after the US govenment removed all the guns, since then, they have been one of, if not the most peacful country in the world.

Murder rate per 100,000 people

USA......................4.8

Japan....................0.4[/QUOTE]

Forgot to include this part of your quote: "The Japanese have a long history with very few guns and little violence." I believe the word "history" and "long" are in your quote. Correct? I realize you're a bit of a revisionist historian but I didn't ignore your quote, you did. The Japanese are not defined simply by the last 70 yrs since WWII. Also, I doubt any cultural anthropologist would ever agree that the only reason the Japanese don't have gun violence currently is due to guns being taken away by the US (and yes, I know this from a college class many moons ago when I got my degree in anthropology). They had little internal gun violence prior to WWII. Their gun violence was perpetuated on everyone else in the region. So... your argument is debunked.

 

[Jim Craik]

QUOTE]It's 12,000 guns compared to 30,000 drunk drivers, 190,000 medical, 500,000 tobacco or 33 per day compared to 82, or 520, or 1370 per day. That's some serious slaughter that doesn't even bother anyone, because it doesn't CONTROL anyone. In ten days tobacco kills more people than a years worth of guns. [/QUOTE]Posted by Al.


So we have one vote for the status quo, 100,000 shot each year, 10,000+ deaths each year, 82 children under 5 killed each year thats just fine because no one will "controll" Al.

OK so Al is not willing to do anything to try and stop the killing, how about the rest of you?

 

[Steve]

Steve,

Are you OK with the thousands of gun deaths each year? If not, what do you think we should do to stop the slaughter of the American people?

Well, first of all I would have all citizens listen and try to carry on a discussion with you. They'll be so busy beating their collective heads against the wall there won't be any time for "slaughtering" (are we cattle now?). Of course, the suicide rate will see logarithmic growth.......


BTW, I don't own a gun but if I lived where you do and did the trail running I do there's no way in hell I'd be without a sidearm with the mountain lions you captured on film. Talk about a real slaughter :stunned:.

Great shots by the way.

 

[Jim Craik]

Fear not Steve,

Since 1986 there have been only 3 fatal Mountain Lion attacks in California, and the victim almost always tried to run, cats like to chase....

One in April 1994 in Eldorado County
One in December 1994 in San Diego County
One in Jan 2004 in Orange County

If you ever come across one DONT RUN, they say to face the cat, get "big" stand on your toes spread your arms and feet, they will leave. These are smart cats, the ones that survive stay well away from people. I've lived in this area all my life and on the mountain for over 11 years and I've never seen one, but I would love to, they are beautiful cats.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

QUOTE]It's 12,000 guns compared to 30,000 drunk drivers, 190,000 medical, 500,000 tobacco or 33 per day compared to 82, or 520, or 1370 per day. That's some serious slaughter that doesn't even bother anyone, because it doesn't CONTROL anyone. In ten days tobacco kills more people than a years worth of guns.

Posted by Al.


So we have one vote for the status quo, 100,000 shot each year, 10,000+ deaths each year, 82 children under 5 killed each year thats just fine because no one will "controll" Al.

OK so Al is not willing to do anything to try and stop the killing, how about the rest of you?[/QUOTE]

That's not what I said, and the 13,000+ that die from tobacco every 10 days, are you going to help with that? I gave you some thoughts on stopping gun deaths, you don't have any kind of compromise short of total control. 12,000 gun deaths a year is ridiculous, but at the same time, you have no suggestions short of taking everyone's guns and the thought of checking suspicious people hurts your sensibility.

 

[Jim Craik]

It's 12,000 guns compared to 30,000 drunk drivers, 190,000 medical, 500,000 tobacco or 33 per day compared to 82, or 520, or 1370 per day. That's some serious slaughter that doesn't even bother anyone, because it doesn't CONTROL anyone. In ten days tobacco kills more people than a years worth of guns.

I know how much you like graphs

It seems that the people and the auto industry realised the extent of the problem and through new, stronger drunk driving laws and safer cars they have made changes and saved thousands of lives, Al is against ANY change because no one will "control" Al.

This is really a bad comparison, on a daly basis virtually everyone rides in cars.........

The number of gun deaths has already passed auto deaths in some states, it wont be long before total gun deaths pass total auto deaths. Al should throw a party.