Jack Houpe
GT40s Supporter
Another Rick, he follows the forum maybe he'll read the thread and give us a picture.
SPF #2285 Born, But Still Coming To Life
- Thread starter soulcoaxer
- Start date
Robert S.
GT40s Supporter
Pebbles and Sand
I do remember reading one of your posts about you having two sets of different tires. My tires are soft Avon racing slicks with hand cut old school treads. Which brand/type of tires do you use for your highway travels? I'm hoping yours are soft Avon slicks too, so I will no longer be concerned with my side rear panels.
Thanks, Robert
Jack, sorry I missed this in your previous note. I did read it but forgot to respond. I was happy to hear that you haven't experienced paint chips at your side rear panels caused by sand and pebbles, etc.
I do remember reading one of your posts about you having two sets of different tires. My tires are soft Avon racing slicks with hand cut old school treads. Which brand/type of tires do you use for your highway travels? I'm hoping yours are soft Avon slicks too, so I will no longer be concerned with my side rear panels.
Thanks, Robert
Just cut some small circles form some 3M clear protector film and put 'em where the cap hits the front clip when fully open.
I keep looking for that "green door" as I remember somebody telling me there was wild goin's on behind it!
Jack Houpe
GT40s Supporter
I run avons also but not the slicks, with the way the rear of the car rolls up to the spoiler I haven't had rock problems but perhaps I should have said anything now I know your running slicks. :stunned:
Robert S.
GT40s Supporter
Enigma of the Green Door
Not a problem Jack. All information is valuable.
Well, maybe except when the Muckster attempts to proclaim he knows not the path to the green door. Most folk know he is oft times the instigator of the wild goings-on and frequently in the midst of it all . . . His cohort plays the hot piano there too . . . :shocked:
Not a problem Jack. All information is valuable.
Well, maybe except when the Muckster attempts to proclaim he knows not the path to the green door. Most folk know he is oft times the instigator of the wild goings-on and frequently in the midst of it all . . . His cohort plays the hot piano there too . . . :shocked:
Mike
Lifetime Supporter
You are one odd individual...
Are those slicks DOT approved? I've heard that in the case of an accident, non DOT tires may possibly open you up to liability. I run DOT Avons and they throw rocks like crazy. I do have the foam inserts and have wrapped the fenders and lips with Clear Bra. That is a love hate relationship. The beauty about these cars is an occasional touch up repaint is not going to hurt the value near as much as it would a car like the Ford GT.
I'm still curious if you have any plans to address the leaky reservoirs? You can be your not so clever snarky self but if you don't attempt to seal them up one way or another or just replace them, you will not be pleased in a couple years when your chassis paint is bubbled and peeling off. Horse... meet water lol.
Are those slicks DOT approved? I've heard that in the case of an accident, non DOT tires may possibly open you up to liability. I run DOT Avons and they throw rocks like crazy. I do have the foam inserts and have wrapped the fenders and lips with Clear Bra. That is a love hate relationship. The beauty about these cars is an occasional touch up repaint is not going to hurt the value near as much as it would a car like the Ford GT.
I'm still curious if you have any plans to address the leaky reservoirs? You can be your not so clever snarky self but if you don't attempt to seal them up one way or another or just replace them, you will not be pleased in a couple years when your chassis paint is bubbled and peeling off. Horse... meet water lol.
Jack Houpe
GT40s Supporter
Robert, I waited 6 months for my engine, when it showed up I was pumped to get it all put together. I got the engine and transaxle in the car and hooked up, then the moment came to put the rear bonnet on and it would not fit. The webers on a 351W block are to high for the rear deck lid to close and be safe from breaking the window. I sold my webers to one of our forum members and had to buy throttle bodies so make sure you check those clearances.
Here is a picture of my Dart 351W 427 with webers before the change over.
Here is a picture of my Dart 351W 427 with webers before the change over.
Attachments
Robert S.
GT40s Supporter
Suckage
Michael, as you personally know from your experiences, there are many joys and many unnecessarily frustrating aspects connected with overseeing the build and selecting the components for these rare but awesome vehicles. Other than the huge problems I experienced with the initial engine build fiasco, the intake styles, design, performance, and fitment problems relating to intakes has strangely continued unabated. There's little doubt the buck stops with me, since I'm in charge. Making my poor performance even less excusable I did read numerous articles by other Forum members on various topics concerning intakes way before I made decisions, and still, I made mistakes.
For the sake of others that may some day do as we have done, I would say that most of the problems, difficulties and delays that I experienced were brought about because I attempted to balance my choices by using too many goals and criteria that were often conflicting in nature: tradition of the car, style and appearance, and performance. I never would have guessed that once I reached ole age, and for the first time in my life budgetary considerations were a lower priority, that such circumstances could create greater challenges and more problems.
As for air intake filtering, that is a big complex subject that I also attempted to learn about. For the sake of others, since I know you know all of this, here are some strange aspects of intakes. First, there are standard carbs (That always flow for any hp rating, but are perhaps less interesting to gaze upon), Weber carbs (very restrictive over 500 hp, but more traditional and interesting to view), Weber EFI (SOME flow more but still limited beyond 600 hp or so - no matter what the makers claim), and non Weber EFI (Available in four body diameters with virtually no hp limits, but not as pretty as the Weber stacks).
If high performance above 500 hp is not an issue, then any of the above will suffice. Once you reach 500 to 550 things change since some of the above can create intake flow restrictions that limit the engine's performance.
If you utilize stacks systems that are Weber-like, not only might they limit flow, but with the addition of screens, filtered screens, and filtered air boxes, those can easily reduce as much as 130 hp. One very credible engine builder performed numerous experiments with stack intakes and said that once he removed the small flared top of the velocity stacks, it dropped 30 hp.
One aspect I learned that completely went against my not too common sense, was that stacks that are too large for any given hp can actually reduce torque, especially in the street driving range. This fact, I've been assured by experts, comes about because larger than required stacks create a condition where the volume of sucked air is greater, but the velocity of the moving air is slower, and that reduces torque. I attempted to reconcile that circumstance, and had to force myself to think of it like this, and this may not be the correct way: Moving air, like moving solid objects, gather momentum proportional to speed, and it is the sucked air velocity that tends to raise torque on side-draft and stack systems. But, to be most effective the diameter of the stacks/bodies/butterflys and intake runners of these types of intakes (stacks and side-draft) must be optimum and not too small and not too large. Who knew; only a few.
I guess I'm still considering my options, but the engine is too nice to ruin, and I suspect I will drive it with decent filtering, and depending on the type and style, will likely remove them at the car shows. Note too that EFI stack systems will automatically adjust the fuel/air ratios according to the ECU programming when one installs and then removes intake filters, whereas the Weber-stack carb systems will require the daunting, time consuming manual adjustments.
Since you're ahead of me on all of these things, I would appreciate hearing any suggestions you may have. And, I will definitely check in to Jack's revelation on fitment - it could be I've made myself a victim of yet another erroneous assumption. But, thank you Jack; I'll never shoot the messenger . . .
Thank you both for helping others like me. Robert :thumbsup:
Michael, as you personally know from your experiences, there are many joys and many unnecessarily frustrating aspects connected with overseeing the build and selecting the components for these rare but awesome vehicles. Other than the huge problems I experienced with the initial engine build fiasco, the intake styles, design, performance, and fitment problems relating to intakes has strangely continued unabated. There's little doubt the buck stops with me, since I'm in charge. Making my poor performance even less excusable I did read numerous articles by other Forum members on various topics concerning intakes way before I made decisions, and still, I made mistakes.
For the sake of others that may some day do as we have done, I would say that most of the problems, difficulties and delays that I experienced were brought about because I attempted to balance my choices by using too many goals and criteria that were often conflicting in nature: tradition of the car, style and appearance, and performance. I never would have guessed that once I reached ole age, and for the first time in my life budgetary considerations were a lower priority, that such circumstances could create greater challenges and more problems.
As for air intake filtering, that is a big complex subject that I also attempted to learn about. For the sake of others, since I know you know all of this, here are some strange aspects of intakes. First, there are standard carbs (That always flow for any hp rating, but are perhaps less interesting to gaze upon), Weber carbs (very restrictive over 500 hp, but more traditional and interesting to view), Weber EFI (SOME flow more but still limited beyond 600 hp or so - no matter what the makers claim), and non Weber EFI (Available in four body diameters with virtually no hp limits, but not as pretty as the Weber stacks).
If high performance above 500 hp is not an issue, then any of the above will suffice. Once you reach 500 to 550 things change since some of the above can create intake flow restrictions that limit the engine's performance.
If you utilize stacks systems that are Weber-like, not only might they limit flow, but with the addition of screens, filtered screens, and filtered air boxes, those can easily reduce as much as 130 hp. One very credible engine builder performed numerous experiments with stack intakes and said that once he removed the small flared top of the velocity stacks, it dropped 30 hp.
One aspect I learned that completely went against my not too common sense, was that stacks that are too large for any given hp can actually reduce torque, especially in the street driving range. This fact, I've been assured by experts, comes about because larger than required stacks create a condition where the volume of sucked air is greater, but the velocity of the moving air is slower, and that reduces torque. I attempted to reconcile that circumstance, and had to force myself to think of it like this, and this may not be the correct way: Moving air, like moving solid objects, gather momentum proportional to speed, and it is the sucked air velocity that tends to raise torque on side-draft and stack systems. But, to be most effective the diameter of the stacks/bodies/butterflys and intake runners of these types of intakes (stacks and side-draft) must be optimum and not too small and not too large. Who knew; only a few.
I guess I'm still considering my options, but the engine is too nice to ruin, and I suspect I will drive it with decent filtering, and depending on the type and style, will likely remove them at the car shows. Note too that EFI stack systems will automatically adjust the fuel/air ratios according to the ECU programming when one installs and then removes intake filters, whereas the Weber-stack carb systems will require the daunting, time consuming manual adjustments.
Since you're ahead of me on all of these things, I would appreciate hearing any suggestions you may have. And, I will definitely check in to Jack's revelation on fitment - it could be I've made myself a victim of yet another erroneous assumption. But, thank you Jack; I'll never shoot the messenger . . .
Thank you both for helping others like me. Robert :thumbsup:
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Robert S.
GT40s Supporter
Fitment
Thanks Jack! I appreciate it, and can only hope you're either kidding or wrong . . . :laugh:
Onward! Robert
Thanks Jack! I appreciate it, and can only hope you're either kidding or wrong . . . :laugh:
Onward! Robert
Robert S.
GT40s Supporter
Engine Build
Engine Basics: 351w/427 CI
Engine Components:
Engine Builder Adam Davis
Engine Basics: 351w/427 CI
Engine Components:
World Man-O-War billet cap block
Callies 4340 Magnum XL crankshaft
Oliver Billet steel rods
Custom Racetec forged dish pistons
3/8" chromoly pushrods
Crower severe duty solid roller HIPPO lifters
Titanium retainers
10.5 to 1 compression
Total Seal rings
Clevite H-Series bearings
Brodix 225cc CNC polished ported heads that flow 334cfm @ .700"
10.5 to 1 compression
Custom Competition Solid Roller cam
Jesel 1.70 Shaft Roller Rockers
ARP head studs and main studs
MLS head gaskets
FAST XFI 2.0 ECU, Harnesses, Sensors, etc.
Engine Performance Specs:Callies 4340 Magnum XL crankshaft
Oliver Billet steel rods
Custom Racetec forged dish pistons
3/8" chromoly pushrods
Crower severe duty solid roller HIPPO lifters
Titanium retainers
10.5 to 1 compression
Total Seal rings
Clevite H-Series bearings
Brodix 225cc CNC polished ported heads that flow 334cfm @ .700"
10.5 to 1 compression
Custom Competition Solid Roller cam
Jesel 1.70 Shaft Roller Rockers
ARP head studs and main studs
MLS head gaskets
FAST XFI 2.0 ECU, Harnesses, Sensors, etc.
Redline 8,000 RPM
H.P. 690 @ 6,200 RPM
TQ 647 @ 5,100
Fuel 91 Octane Pump Gas
Notes: Engine capable of 740 HP, but intake restricts. However, increasing size of intake would reduce torque within street driving range. H.P. 690 @ 6,200 RPM
TQ 647 @ 5,100
Fuel 91 Octane Pump Gas
Engine Builder Adam Davis
Jack Houpe
GT40s Supporter
Re: Fitment
Sorry, I am not kidding and I don't think it will fit, make sure to do some checking before you get to far.
The MK1 all had small blocks in them. I hope Rick will chime in here, he would know. Check out this link.
If you take off the velocity stacks and cut the deck lid on your car it will fit but to me it wasn't worth cutting the deck lid. Unless they have do some mods to the later cars the opening for the carbs offset to the right of dead center.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/superformance-gt40s/25065-first-drive.html
Sorry, I am not kidding and I don't think it will fit, make sure to do some checking before you get to far.
The MK1 all had small blocks in them. I hope Rick will chime in here, he would know. Check out this link.
If you take off the velocity stacks and cut the deck lid on your car it will fit but to me it wasn't worth cutting the deck lid. Unless they have do some mods to the later cars the opening for the carbs offset to the right of dead center.
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/superformance-gt40s/25065-first-drive.html
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Robert S.
GT40s Supporter
Fits Over Fitment
Jack,
HELP please,
I do have small block 351w.
I read your notes and visited your link to First Drive, and looked at your photos again. I believe you said you had installed Webers initially, and that they would not fit. Then you changed to EFI 8-stack.
I do not have Webers; I have EFI 8-stack too, and no manifold spacer.
Where am I going wrong here, again?
I must be much further over the hill than I thought!
Thank you sir, Robert
Jack,
HELP please,
I do have small block 351w.
I read your notes and visited your link to First Drive, and looked at your photos again. I believe you said you had installed Webers initially, and that they would not fit. Then you changed to EFI 8-stack.
I do not have Webers; I have EFI 8-stack too, and no manifold spacer.
Where am I going wrong here, again?
I must be much further over the hill than I thought!
Thank you sir, Robert
Robert S.
GT40s Supporter
Engine Dyno Movie
SAME MOVIE
TWO MOVIE FORMATS
YOUR CHOICE
MP4 Movie - Use Quick Time Player www.prideofbrea.org/2285dynofiles/2285Dyno.mp4
WMV Movie - Use Windows Media Player www.prideofbrea.org/2285dynofiles/2285Dyno.wmv
SAME MOVIE
TWO MOVIE FORMATS
YOUR CHOICE
MP4 Movie - Use Quick Time Player www.prideofbrea.org/2285dynofiles/2285Dyno.mp4
WMV Movie - Use Windows Media Player www.prideofbrea.org/2285dynofiles/2285Dyno.wmv
Jack Houpe
GT40s Supporter
Robert are those carb look a likes? sure looked like webers to me. The spacer I am speaking of had to go between the intake manifold the the heads. It was a small block manifold but with the increased deck height it put the heads further apart so they use a space to make up the difference. But even if I didn't have the spacers it still would not have fit. The opening for the carbs on the MK1 is offset (not dead center of the car) I would have had to cut that opening up just so the rear deck lid would close around the carbs. The TWM throttle bodies came with a 351W manifold and you can put the fuel rail on the inside rather on the outside, this will allow you to close your deck lid without hanging up on them.
Here is a picture of the spacers which were on the motor with the carbs. Take a couple measurement and I will see if it will fit. I need widest from side to side of the carbs including fuel fittings, then measure from the back of the motor (where the bell housing bolts on to the motor) to the top of carbs. You may have to put a straight edge on top of the carbs to do this. I will measure mine and get back with you.
I don't want to upset you but it didn't work for me.
Here is a picture of the spacers which were on the motor with the carbs. Take a couple measurement and I will see if it will fit. I need widest from side to side of the carbs including fuel fittings, then measure from the back of the motor (where the bell housing bolts on to the motor) to the top of carbs. You may have to put a straight edge on top of the carbs to do this. I will measure mine and get back with you.
I don't want to upset you but it didn't work for me.
Attachments
Jack Houpe
GT40s Supporter
I just watched your video, very nice! The bad part you don't want to hear is I can tell clearly by the video that unless you can put the fuel rails on the inside your deck lid will not close. You may have to cut the opening bigger.
