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Audi 016 Owners/Users
- Thread starter Ron Earp
- Start date
Thats what a limited education does for ya. smart arseJim C said:You never could spell Mick.
Jim C
Jim S.
What about using the case from the 944?
Here is pic from ebay that shows not release bearing tube and an odd input shaft.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pors...017QQitemZ270016195942QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Perhaps it would be easier to machine the input to accept a friction disc and mill the housing to accept a release bearing.
The Audi parts could be used in one way or another too.
If it works it could still be under $1500.00 for a transmission that has a good ratio and a strong R&P.
I have 4 scraped transaxles...I think I will buy a used 944 and do some testing.
Jim
What about using the case from the 944?
Here is pic from ebay that shows not release bearing tube and an odd input shaft.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pors...017QQitemZ270016195942QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
Perhaps it would be easier to machine the input to accept a friction disc and mill the housing to accept a release bearing.
The Audi parts could be used in one way or another too.
If it works it could still be under $1500.00 for a transmission that has a good ratio and a strong R&P.
I have 4 scraped transaxles...I think I will buy a used 944 and do some testing.
Jim
The project is moving forward for the driveline stuff.. I could not be happer with the 016 at the moment
Picked up the complete audi turbo engine with controls/016 trans AFC ratios and a 944 5 speed box for $370(total price) at the world famous pick your part in the SF bay area!
I'm going to get another 016 box and do the R&P Jim S procedure also the cryo treatment, at a minimum on the R&P and Spiders. The turbo engine and trans hanging on the chainfall got a lot of looks! LOL,, got a few, heck,, I got to get one of them turbos for my ride! The intercooler is almost as large as the radiator. The transaxles did get the most comments for some strange reason...
Soon I will have transaxle cleaning and disassembly activities up,,, more that I could have hoped for.. This is a great thread!
Thanks Jim S, it was an 86 Turbo 944S.. for my pickup today...
best
Picked up the complete audi turbo engine with controls/016 trans AFC ratios and a 944 5 speed box for $370(total price) at the world famous pick your part in the SF bay area!
I'm going to get another 016 box and do the R&P Jim S procedure also the cryo treatment, at a minimum on the R&P and Spiders. The turbo engine and trans hanging on the chainfall got a lot of looks! LOL,, got a few, heck,, I got to get one of them turbos for my ride! The intercooler is almost as large as the radiator. The transaxles did get the most comments for some strange reason...
Soon I will have transaxle cleaning and disassembly activities up,,, more that I could have hoped for.. This is a great thread!
Thanks Jim S, it was an 86 Turbo 944S.. for my pickup today...
best
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Jim D.
I thought about this quite a bit too. You could machine the front of the input shaft down so that it was smooth and would possibly fit into the crank, but you would have to use a ball bearing instead of needle bearing in the end of the crank. The reason is you'd machine through the case hardness on the end of the shaft and it would gull if needles were riding against it. You might be able to find a hardened sleeve to press on after machining down and still use the needle bearing.
The other problem is the case isn't designed the same where the slave cylinder fits on the Audi. There is also no spot for the plastic ball that the through out fork rids on and as you mentioned no real bosses where the bolts for the though out bearing steel sleeve could bolt to.
I'm not saying it can't be done!! I just haven't figured out which way is the way to go yet! I do recommend the LSD out of the 944 Turbo no matter what you have in mind. I think this would fix your current problem. 4 spiders gears instead of 2.
If you do purchase one it has to be the turbo trans. It can't be the naturally aspirated 944 it's more like the audi inside, and doesn't have a 3.375 R&P. Let me know if you get ahold of one and it looks do-able to convert into the audi setup.
Good luck.
Keep me posted!
I thought about this quite a bit too. You could machine the front of the input shaft down so that it was smooth and would possibly fit into the crank, but you would have to use a ball bearing instead of needle bearing in the end of the crank. The reason is you'd machine through the case hardness on the end of the shaft and it would gull if needles were riding against it. You might be able to find a hardened sleeve to press on after machining down and still use the needle bearing.
The other problem is the case isn't designed the same where the slave cylinder fits on the Audi. There is also no spot for the plastic ball that the through out fork rids on and as you mentioned no real bosses where the bolts for the though out bearing steel sleeve could bolt to.
I'm not saying it can't be done!! I just haven't figured out which way is the way to go yet! I do recommend the LSD out of the 944 Turbo no matter what you have in mind. I think this would fix your current problem. 4 spiders gears instead of 2.
If you do purchase one it has to be the turbo trans. It can't be the naturally aspirated 944 it's more like the audi inside, and doesn't have a 3.375 R&P. Let me know if you get ahold of one and it looks do-able to convert into the audi setup.
Good luck.
Keep me posted!
I like your style Ron
Nice thread,
I do believe the 016 with 944 turbo internals does represent the most cost efffective tranny setup to obtain, and to prob maintain over the life of the car.
Can anyone provide me with some ID referance on the 944 turbo tranny, and what cars they may have been available in. Did any turbo 944 come with an LSD option, only the S badge cars, or was it a dealer option throughout the turbo line.
Thanks to any helpful information, and the gentleman with the machining ecperience behind the internal swap is a bloody genius, good stuff sir.
Peace@speed
Ryan
Nice thread,
I do believe the 016 with 944 turbo internals does represent the most cost efffective tranny setup to obtain, and to prob maintain over the life of the car.
Can anyone provide me with some ID referance on the 944 turbo tranny, and what cars they may have been available in. Did any turbo 944 come with an LSD option, only the S badge cars, or was it a dealer option throughout the turbo line.
Thanks to any helpful information, and the gentleman with the machining ecperience behind the internal swap is a bloody genius, good stuff sir.
Peace@speed
Ryan
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No prob Jim.
No problem Jim.
Your experience is undoubted due to the technical description and the fact you list your profession as a 5-axis CNC programmer. You obviously have some credibility in this area. I have had experience machining custom guns, 45's, SXS shotguns, and Ar15's for a custom gunsmithing company in colorado. I have had a good deal of vert mill and lathe experience so I believe "armed" with the proper tools this is a very good option for me.
As of last night I drove home my audi 016 transaxle in a $300 87 5000s. Well not much worked on the car as you might guess for $300, but the trans and clutch were money, and that's all I'll really be keeping. On a side note, anyone need parts for a 1987 Audi 5000s, I've got a whole car for ya, minus transmission and associated componentry.
I would be wondering if you might have any pictorial referance Jim, on the machining involved or where we might be able to find some exploded diagrams of what your talking about in more detail. This seems to be a great budget option and I hope to see this unfold in the future. For now I can start fabricating the rear clip and laying everything out for my cage. The internal swap can come much later. Now it's time for mock up and fab.
If anyone starts such an undertaking as this (the 944 internal swap) please post and in detail, this could become a great strength and good ratio option for the budget builder.
Sorry to derail from the original 016 owners post, but this can become a great option for the 016 owner with some experince, know-how and time, and tools.
No problem Jim.
Your experience is undoubted due to the technical description and the fact you list your profession as a 5-axis CNC programmer. You obviously have some credibility in this area. I have had experience machining custom guns, 45's, SXS shotguns, and Ar15's for a custom gunsmithing company in colorado. I have had a good deal of vert mill and lathe experience so I believe "armed" with the proper tools this is a very good option for me.
As of last night I drove home my audi 016 transaxle in a $300 87 5000s. Well not much worked on the car as you might guess for $300, but the trans and clutch were money, and that's all I'll really be keeping. On a side note, anyone need parts for a 1987 Audi 5000s, I've got a whole car for ya, minus transmission and associated componentry.
I would be wondering if you might have any pictorial referance Jim, on the machining involved or where we might be able to find some exploded diagrams of what your talking about in more detail. This seems to be a great budget option and I hope to see this unfold in the future. For now I can start fabricating the rear clip and laying everything out for my cage. The internal swap can come much later. Now it's time for mock up and fab.
If anyone starts such an undertaking as this (the 944 internal swap) please post and in detail, this could become a great strength and good ratio option for the budget builder.
Sorry to derail from the original 016 owners post, but this can become a great option for the 016 owner with some experince, know-how and time, and tools.
Ryan,
I should have some time this winter. I'm so busy right now I haven't been able to continue with this mod. I have the trans scattered all over the bench and a LSD and 3.375 R&P from the 944 turbo trans, but haven't started machining yet. I'm finishing our basement off because we just had our third baby. 3 BOYS now!!!!! I'll have alot of future helpers.
Shoot me a PM this winter and hopefully I'll have all the details and info that anyone that choices to do this mod will be able to if they have the tools.
Cheers,
I should have some time this winter. I'm so busy right now I haven't been able to continue with this mod. I have the trans scattered all over the bench and a LSD and 3.375 R&P from the 944 turbo trans, but haven't started machining yet. I'm finishing our basement off because we just had our third baby. 3 BOYS now!!!!! I'll have alot of future helpers.
Shoot me a PM this winter and hopefully I'll have all the details and info that anyone that choices to do this mod will be able to if they have the tools.
Cheers,
Seems to me that there may be a market opportunity for one of you talented fellas: take an Audi box, add the Porsche bits, and LSD; make 'em play nicely together, clean it all up and sell 'em at $2k each.
I like the idea of a transaxle + a spare for half the cost of a single ZF.
I like the idea of a transaxle + a spare for half the cost of a single ZF.
Pete,
The audi/Porsche 944T hybrid is what has been constructed as the option for the CAV in SA. The company they use is also working for other SA manufacturers. I supplied the boxes and they did the mods, Heat treatment and intercase platework... I know that they have supplied for racing GT40s managing 400+hp with slicks w/o problems!
PM
Steve
The audi/Porsche 944T hybrid is what has been constructed as the option for the CAV in SA. The company they use is also working for other SA manufacturers. I supplied the boxes and they did the mods, Heat treatment and intercase platework... I know that they have supplied for racing GT40s managing 400+hp with slicks w/o problems!
PM
Steve
Hello, I'm a new kid here. I have been researching 016 based transaxles for a while. There has been a wealth of info here. I cone from the Porsche end of this.
Since there are so many similarities between the 944 and Audi 016, I don't see why you couldn't buy a 944 turbo transaxle and just swap out the front housing and machine the input shaft for the pilot bearing. Besides givung you a stronger transaxle, if you bought a turbo transaxle with limited slip and an oil cooler, you would also have these. You would also have the additional strength of a larger diameter input shaft. The 944 uses a 1" 23 spline input shaft and the Audi is 13/16" 24 spline.
Since there are so many similarities between the 944 and Audi 016, I don't see why you couldn't buy a 944 turbo transaxle and just swap out the front housing and machine the input shaft for the pilot bearing. Besides givung you a stronger transaxle, if you bought a turbo transaxle with limited slip and an oil cooler, you would also have these. You would also have the additional strength of a larger diameter input shaft. The 944 uses a 1" 23 spline input shaft and the Audi is 13/16" 24 spline.
Pete T
The front aluminum housing is different internally and externally as mentioned above. The porsche has a larger front Pinion bearing. So you cannot just simply swap them. Either way requires machining. This is the dilemma though. Which way to go. I haven't personally decide yet either.
The front aluminum housing is different internally and externally as mentioned above. The porsche has a larger front Pinion bearing. So you cannot just simply swap them. Either way requires machining. This is the dilemma though. Which way to go. I haven't personally decide yet either.
I realize the Audi case would need some machineing, but machining for one larger bearing doesn't seem to be that much of an obstacle compared to building the rest of the car. I have not read about any 944 turbo's with ring and pinion issues like the Audi or the non turbo 944's, so the strengthening plate that Jim Dinner made may not even be necessary. (although I would do it anyway as it is cheap insurance) Yes, you would need to machine the case, but any good machine shop should be capable of this. And as I said, the returns are good. I think this would be easier than modifing the 944 turbo case for the slave cylinder, t/o bearing support and fork pivot. Either way you would need to machine the case, but using all of the other 944 turbo components strengthens up other areas in the transaxle. You also get a larger input shaft. Although I'm not sure the larger input shaft is all that necessary. The up side of the larger shaft is it opens up the availability of clutch discs. Chrysler and Ford use 1" 23 so there is almost an endless supply of clutchs that can be had at almost any parts store.
Pete
Pete
Valid point.
I hear ya Jim.
Life is fun, and keep it up. Love to see what you come up with over the winter. For right now I'll be mocking things up with my AAZ 016, $300 score. Untill we can get some more info on which way to go on this, and what's involved in either direction. The internal swap or machining the front case, either way, very good direction. I'm looking for a 3 in 1 over the winter so hopefull I can start some of my own research on this. The more of us working together, the more solutions we can bring to the table and the more experience we all gian with trial and error.
Keep it up Jim. Thanks sir.
I suggest that if anyone continues the 016 modifications and has some machining info on it that we start another post dedicated to the hot rodding of the 016 box.
I hear ya Jim.
Life is fun, and keep it up. Love to see what you come up with over the winter. For right now I'll be mocking things up with my AAZ 016, $300 score. Untill we can get some more info on which way to go on this, and what's involved in either direction. The internal swap or machining the front case, either way, very good direction. I'm looking for a 3 in 1 over the winter so hopefull I can start some of my own research on this. The more of us working together, the more solutions we can bring to the table and the more experience we all gian with trial and error.
Keep it up Jim. Thanks sir.
I suggest that if anyone continues the 016 modifications and has some machining info on it that we start another post dedicated to the hot rodding of the 016 box.
i just want a adaptor to bolt a 016 or a 01e to a ford 4.6 lol
Have a look here at what these guys are doing with the Audi box.
Also at the end of the post, there is a good section about strenghtening the bearing supports.
Trans 5000 Audi - Lambo Lounge
Also at the end of the post, there is a good section about strenghtening the bearing supports.
Trans 5000 Audi - Lambo Lounge
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