Uh Oh.. This can't be Good

[Keith]

Joe Biden compares the Tea Party to terrorists. Is this the most crass and nasty US presidency in decades? – Telegraph Blogs

 

[Jeff Young]

Unfortunately, accurate. These guys wanted to detonate an economic nuclear bomb -- a default -- and threatened to do so unless they got their way.

I wouldn't have said it (McCain's "hobbit" comment was perhaps a bit more discrete) but the tactics have some direct analogies.

 

[Joey Dean]

Please note that the right side of the aisle were not the only ones that stood against the compromise. If we are gong to use the terrorist label then it needs to be equally applied to those labeled as "far left leaning" as well.

 

[Jeff Young]

True.

However, I never got the sense that the opposition to a compromise from the left was founded on the idea that a default was an actual option if folks didn't get their way. Basically, the left wanted some tax increases (ok with me if reasonable) and hands off Medicare and SS (not workable to me).

But I think they would have taken the Obama/Boehner deal. Unlike the Tea Zombies.

Please note that the right side of the aisle were not the only ones that stood against the compromise. If we are gong to use the terrorist label then it needs to be equally applied to those labeled as "far left leaning" as well.

 

[Joey Dean]

True or not, I simply oppose the labeling unless it is appropriate across the board. Do I take it you do not? I have no idea at what point either side would have thrown up their hands and met in the middle. Regardless the posturing was the same and, therefore, so should be the label.

 

[Jeff Young]

I think the general consensus is that the Tea Zombies held the rest of the Republican party hostage and refused to accept any compromise. I think the general consensus is that if Obama and Boehner, or McConnell and Reid, had been able to broker a deal along the lines of what both had discussed for months -- more cuts including cuts to entitlement programs, coupled with modest tax increases modelled on allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire -- that the Democrats would have been able to get their membership in line and get it passed.

The same was not true for the House Republicans. The ones their own party leadership went after, calling them things like "Tea Hobbits."

 

[Joey Dean]

Well, I am closer to being a "Tea Zombie" than about any other political leaning. I have also been able to get across my meaning without using the words commie, socialist, idiot, far left wacko, or any other derogatory term (and I promise I am not listing these now for that reason). Those are intended to cause a negative response in support of or against an idea depending upon the use and what the orator is striving for.

So why? Why is it useful, what response are you intending to get that would in any way be positive in furthering your position, and why doesn't it flow both ways?

 

[Jeff Young]

I use the word "Tea Zombie" because while I can handle reasonable Democrats and reasonable Republicans, I can't handle blowhards on either side, like say Keith Olberman.

I use the words Tea Zombie because right now I see this army of folks who don't really have a clue about what they are talking about claiming to have very simple 'answers" to our very complicated economic and social problems. I think the fringe - and the Tea Party is the fringe -- should be called just that. They are disruptive, for the most part ill-informed (not saying you are), and on the whole anti-compromise.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Hmmm, sometimes the simplistic answers can be the best. IMHO.
What I am sure of is printing money and going further into massive debt is not the answer.

 

[Jon Briggs]

Actually Pete, printing money is the answer. And its what the Americans will do as a new round of currency wars kick off.

 

[domtoni]

And a whole bunch of others in influential positions like Chris Matthews restated the Biden position. Desperation to me.

 

[Jeff Young]

No Pete, there aren't any simple answers to these issues. Foolish to think there are.

Even more foolish to fall for the idea that the US is "printing money." In fact, saying stuff like that is a huge part of the problem because it exposes those who claim to have simple answers as not having any idea of what they are talking about.

Is the US borrowing to finance deficit spending (which with the economy where it is now, most economists agree is necessary)? Yes. Does it need to get its spending and revenue problems under control? Yes.

Is the US Treasury sitting there whirring away just printing money and thereby devaluing our currency?

Nope.

Hard to have a serious discussion with folks who don't understand basic economics like this.

 

[Jeff Young]

Frustration is more like it. Frustration from both the left ( Biden) and the right (McCain -- calling them Tea Hobbits).

And a whole bunch of others in influential positions like Chris Matthews restated the Biden position. Desperation to me.

 

[Jon Briggs]

What America needs is to spend less and tax more. It also needs to devalue its currency and stoke some inflation.

 

[David Morton]

In the various political programs on the B.B.C. about the problems facing the U.S.A, many of the learned pundits are saying China and India are in the driving seat from now on.
If you don't like it, too bad, but that is their opinion. Also a fact that the U.S.A. will become a second or lower tier economy by the end of this year and that the economy in the U.S.A. is about to implode. I hope not as it does not bode well for other countries such as ours. (the UK) Maybe the 'special relationship' might falter as we cannot offer any help or advice or even funds to bail the U.S.A. economy out.
We are all in the mire at the moment and with the current crop of politicians here in the UK, I fear it will remain that way for some time to come.

 

[Jeff Young]

I agree with you the world economic dynamic is changing. The US can't expect to retain the economic hegemony it has held over the last 60 years. The conditions were perfect for it -- the rest of the industrialized world basically in ruins due to WWII -- but those conditions are past.

India and China are huge countries, 3-4 times the size of the US population wise. They will at some point support larger economies than the US. BUT, the question always will be -- what is per capita GDP and what is the standard of living?

For probably the rest of our lives, the 'better' place to live in my view for the majority of the population will continue to be the US and Western Europe. We are now mature economies and will not see the growth rates of India, China and other places, but hopefully we will use our advantages -- stability, education, health care, ec. -- to retain our standard of living.

Germany and Sweden provide two excellent examples right now. Stable economies. Growing reasonably. Fiscally conservative (even the Swedes!). Stable social safety net. Low unemployment.

That is the direction the US/Uk/France/Spain/Greece need to go.

In the various political programs on the B.B.C. about the

problems facing the U.S.A, many of the learned pundits are saying China and India are in the driving seat from now on.
If you don't like it, too bad, but that is their opinion. Also a fact that the U.S.A. will become a second or lower tier economy by the end of this year and that the economy in the U.S.A. is about to implode. I hope not as it does not bode well for other countries such as ours. (the UK) Maybe the 'special relationship' might falter as we cannot offer any help or advice or even funds to bail the U.S.A. economy out.
We are all in the mire at the moment and with the current crop of politicians here in the UK, I fear it will remain that way for some time to come.

 

[Terry Oxandale]

When I was studying the 2nd law of thermodynamics, I came upon a realization that entropy and economies could be linked as tightly as heat or energy. This was 30 years ago, and we are seeing this "equalization" take place today. America will never be as strong in the future as it is today simply because we are now in a world economy. The "hot room" door has been opened to the "cold" world. The heat is warming the cool, and eventually it will all equalize (China and India and the USA will be on equal footing).
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Politics is no different. Our political antics replicate more and more what happens in the 3rd world politics with honor and ethics simply being to onerous to promote or endure. We used to walk the talk about being “better”. Now we just talk the talk, and hope we don’t’ get caught, and when we do, we blame someone else. Money has never ruled more solidly in this country than ever before (another 3<SUP>rd</SUP> world comparison) with so few calling the shots that impact so many. The easier way out for our politicians is to look out for number one, and the hell with what America really needs. <o></o>
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I've never been so disgusted with our government as I am today! My rant for the month.<o></o>