And seems to fly in the face of recent optimistic US economic data?
It's a big one...
BBC News - Detroit becomes largest US city to file for bankruptcy
It's a big one...
BBC News - Detroit becomes largest US city to file for bankruptcy
This News is Depressing...
- Thread starter Keith1
- Start date
Yeeeeeeup...That's what happens when the 'gimme-gimmes' keep re-electing the big spending, handout-granting, "tax the rich" Democrats to city hall for over a half a century. "The rich" get fed up and head for the door. (They didn't GET rich by being stupid.)
Detroit won't be the last. Watch.
Detroit won't be the last. Watch.
Wherever you look in the world, it appears the realisation that reckless spending as a means of generating growth has a definite shelf life and that drastic cutting of public spending will required. GB has been fighting this battle for 5 years now and is barely (if at all) edging forwards despite 0.5% interest rates.
Problem is debt is so huge it can't serviced?
Third world countries have it right. Billions borrowed from Fanny Pack and Freddie Fubar, spent on illegal drugs, profits embezzled, people still starve, and the dam still leaks - debt renegotiated over 10,000 years, debt cancelled.
New loan negotiated but the Rest-of-The-World till has it's oil and mineral exploration/extraction rights... :uneasy:
Frackin' Hell!
So, why don't we just cancel out all debt and start again? Who would lose?
Sorry, economics not my strong point, and pretty much like everything else in my knowledge bank, it got overdrawn.
For example, I've never ever understood how this works. Oh I know what it looks like but it can't be that simple.
Help nicely please:
A bald-headed bearded stranger stopped in town and went into an small old hotel to check in. He asked to go check out the rooms first so, in good faith, he left a $100 bill—a deposit of sorts—with the hotel owner. The hotel owner immediately ran next door to pay his grocery bill. The grocer ran it across the street to pay one of his suppliers. The supplier used it to pay off his co-op bill. The co-op guy ran it back across the street to pay the local hooker who had taken up residence in the aforementioned hotel. The hooker ran it downstairs to pay her hotel bill just ahead of the returning traveler, who picked the $100 bill off the desk and left saying that the rooms were not satisfactory.
Problem is debt is so huge it can't serviced?
Third world countries have it right. Billions borrowed from Fanny Pack and Freddie Fubar, spent on illegal drugs, profits embezzled, people still starve, and the dam still leaks - debt renegotiated over 10,000 years, debt cancelled.
New loan negotiated but the Rest-of-The-World till has it's oil and mineral exploration/extraction rights... :uneasy:
Frackin' Hell!
So, why don't we just cancel out all debt and start again? Who would lose?
Sorry, economics not my strong point, and pretty much like everything else in my knowledge bank, it got overdrawn.
For example, I've never ever understood how this works. Oh I know what it looks like but it can't be that simple.
Help nicely please:
A bald-headed bearded stranger stopped in town and went into an small old hotel to check in. He asked to go check out the rooms first so, in good faith, he left a $100 bill—a deposit of sorts—with the hotel owner. The hotel owner immediately ran next door to pay his grocery bill. The grocer ran it across the street to pay one of his suppliers. The supplier used it to pay off his co-op bill. The co-op guy ran it back across the street to pay the local hooker who had taken up residence in the aforementioned hotel. The hooker ran it downstairs to pay her hotel bill just ahead of the returning traveler, who picked the $100 bill off the desk and left saying that the rooms were not satisfactory.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Stay safe buy gold.... Not paper gold physical gold.
That is brilliant.
I often get shot down for also suggesting the whole system is pointless, debts may as well be written off and we should start over. Those in finacial circles will call us naive. Well they would, wouldn't they?!
Take the black-hole years of the last Labour Government in the UK. The increase in Public Sector jobs rose exponentially. Now people wonder why so many of those ridiculously unnecessary jobs need to be radically cut. The Private Sector pays for the Public Sector and when you create too much of the latter, that the former cannot possibly cover the cost, you have no choice but to borrow. So it seems fairly obvious even to me, that investment and any and all necessary Tax incentives are aimed at stimulating the Private Sector.
Striping away all the lefty Red Tape that ties up Small Business and prevents growth. Get rid of Employer's NI contributions and allow an employer to dismiss poor workers, without the fear of lengthy and financially ruinous legal battles where the claimant is funded to any level and the Employer has little choice but to settle.
Stop blaming wealthy people for the fact that the not so wealthy are not so wealthy. Jealousy is unproductive. And that is what we are dealing with, pure and simple. Jealousy.
Stop taxing everyone who paid in, when they are ready to retire and start to consider down-sizing and releasing funds. Capital Gains and Death Duties are nothing more than taxing a person twice.
Then their are the 'Capital Projects' that Politicians seem to love so much. They treat the world as a virtual Sid Meyers Civilisation game, and simply want to build something big and shiny that will have their name plastered all over it for posterity. Think the Millenium Dome or now, HS2.
Rail lines over-crowded? Release some of the extra carriages that they 'hid away' in Warwickshire on an old airfield, for a start.
Pausing for breath........................I am starting to ramble again!
Last edited:
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Absolutely agree Mark, not about rambling but about your sentiment. Jealousy is what it is all about. It's not fair that he is successful and I'm not.
I blame Robin Hood for that. You remember him? He robbed from the rich and gave some to the poor... So they would join his band of merry men. Guess why he robbed from the rich? The poor didn't have any money... The bugga was worse than the Sheriff of Nottingham.
I blame Robin Hood for that. You remember him? He robbed from the rich and gave some to the poor... So they would join his band of merry men. Guess why he robbed from the rich? The poor didn't have any money... The bugga was worse than the Sheriff of Nottingham.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
You can be so relentlessly partisan, and blind, it's scary.
No. That's not what happened.
Detroit has fundamental issues that go far beyond Republican or Democrat. The city has lost more population since WWII than any other American city as the car industry has declined.
Keith, parts of Detroit look like a ghost town. It's eery really, the city basically stopped growing in 1965 and because of poor weather, and a poor economy people have left and the tax base withered.
Detroit is fairly unique with challenges and problems completely different from the south, southwest, and California, which while not "booming" are doing well, and the central Northwest (North and South Dakota, Montana and Idaho) which are booming.
Don't let Larry's hate for Democrats blind you to what is really going on.
Larry? Democrats?
I don't read stuff like that (sorry Larry, not you) because I don't get it. I am just commenting on a bad situation.
Strangely, urban Detroit looks just like parts of China and Spain.
The difference?
In China and Spain it's all brand new and yet ghost towns. The new urban sprawls outside Madrid and Beijing (sorry, Kerching) are just plain scary like from an apocolypse movie.
Dead.
I cannot think which is worse, as both scenarios represent epic failures.
I don't read stuff like that (sorry Larry, not you) because I don't get it. I am just commenting on a bad situation.
Strangely, urban Detroit looks just like parts of China and Spain.
The difference?
In China and Spain it's all brand new and yet ghost towns. The new urban sprawls outside Madrid and Beijing (sorry, Kerching) are just plain scary like from an apocolypse movie.
Dead.
I cannot think which is worse, as both scenarios represent epic failures.
It's not runaway spending? Get serious, they have been spending $100,000,000 a year more than they take in since 2008. They have $11,000,000,000 in unsecured debt. If that's not runaway spending I don't know WTF is. Democrat control since 1962. 51 years. Those people can manage a buck. Why do you suppose the population has dropped? Detroit is turning into a 3rd world shithole.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Al. Thta's because they have the infrastructure of a city of 1.6 mil to pay for and a tax base of 700,000. The loss of jobs as the car industry got smaller, the lack of attractiveness due to weather, etc. all STARTED under Republican mayors if that even matters (it doesn't).
Making everything partisan is stupid and divisive. You miss the real causes and real solutions for things.
Making everything partisan is stupid and divisive. You miss the real causes and real solutions for things.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Irony...this showed up when I clicked on the weather channel today:
Modern Ruins of Abandoned Detroit (PHOTOS) - weather.com
Modern Ruins of Abandoned Detroit (PHOTOS) - weather.com
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
And from the AP:
The city's woes have piled up for generations. In the 1950s, its population grew to 1.8 million people, many of whom were lured by plentiful, well-paying auto jobs. Later that decade, Detroit began to decline as developers started building suburbs that lured away workers and businesses.
Then beginning in the late 1960s, auto companies began opening plants in other cities. Property values and tax revenue fell, and police couldn't control crime. In later years, the rise of autos imported from Japan started to cut the size of the U.S. auto industry.
By the time the auto industry melted down in 2009, only a few factories from GM and Chrysler were left. GM is the only one with headquarters in Detroit, though it has huge research and testing centers with thousands of jobs outside the city.
The city's woes have piled up for generations. In the 1950s, its population grew to 1.8 million people, many of whom were lured by plentiful, well-paying auto jobs. Later that decade, Detroit began to decline as developers started building suburbs that lured away workers and businesses.
Then beginning in the late 1960s, auto companies began opening plants in other cities. Property values and tax revenue fell, and police couldn't control crime. In later years, the rise of autos imported from Japan started to cut the size of the U.S. auto industry.
By the time the auto industry melted down in 2009, only a few factories from GM and Chrysler were left. GM is the only one with headquarters in Detroit, though it has huge research and testing centers with thousands of jobs outside the city.
A very modern problem - it's all gone East. Luckily, in the UK because we leaned on the Japanese at the right time, there has been considerable inward investment from all the PacRim countries here and the exercise has been extremely successful with productivity and quality on a par with the best which, given our labour/union history is nothing short of amazing.
You can teach old dogs new tricks, all you've got to do is stop kicking them all the time but it does take time, commitment, and above all, patience. Go for long term community solutions not short term profit that gets whisked offshore.
That's a bit of a liberal concept I guess but you if promise not to snitch, I'll keep quiet too.
I think it was good for us although some called "foul" but I'd rather a job from a Jap on my doorstep than sell our employment to China.
Somewhere along the line, we've been totally highjacked by individual and global corporate greed masquerading as innocent free market economics.
My ass.
You can teach old dogs new tricks, all you've got to do is stop kicking them all the time but it does take time, commitment, and above all, patience. Go for long term community solutions not short term profit that gets whisked offshore.
That's a bit of a liberal concept I guess but you if promise not to snitch, I'll keep quiet too.
I think it was good for us although some called "foul" but I'd rather a job from a Jap on my doorstep than sell our employment to China.
Somewhere along the line, we've been totally highjacked by individual and global corporate greed masquerading as innocent free market economics.
My ass.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
That's an insightful post actually.
The Germans, Dutch, Swedes, and to a lesser extent the UK etc. have done a great job of spending money on long term solutions to the problem of creating jobs in a mature economy. In the US, we just think the magic all knowing market will fix everything.
The US economy simply can't grow at the same rate as India or China -- they are exploding right now because they had so far to go. We don't seem to realize that here and our policies reflect it.
The Germans, Dutch, Swedes, and to a lesser extent the UK etc. have done a great job of spending money on long term solutions to the problem of creating jobs in a mature economy. In the US, we just think the magic all knowing market will fix everything.
The US economy simply can't grow at the same rate as India or China -- they are exploding right now because they had so far to go. We don't seem to realize that here and our policies reflect it.
Thaaaaaaat's right, Jeff. I'm a "hater"...like everybody else who doesn't see things the way you do.
"It's eery really, the city basically stopped growing in 1965 and because of poor weather..."
Because of "poor weather", sir? Seriously? Was Detroit in the tropics during its boom days?
"...and a poor economy people have left and the tax base withered."
Like I said earlier - "The rich" got tired of it all and 'split'...leaving the gimme-gimmies to shoulder the tax load. Good luck with that.
What doomed Detroit was the sleazy, corrupt way it's been run for over 50 years...'run by people who think exactly like this Detroit city council woman (see the vid):
Detroit Council Woman To Obama: "Bring Home The Bacon Because My People Voted For You" : Freedom Outpost
"Weather" my eye...
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Yes. You are a hater. You make everything partisan and everything that goes wrong in the country regardless of actual fault you blame on the other side. And in doing so, you miss out completely on what is really going on.
Read any news article today about the causes of Detroit's failure and it's job loss, car companies leaving, suburb flight (experienced by every city regardless of its leadership) and, yes weather. Detroit was attractive in 1950 despite the terrible weather. Detroit and other rust belt cities, once the promise of jobs was gone, lost population to folks moving south and south west.
This is basic stuff.
You'd just rather screech about "Because Democrat!"
Sad.
Read any news article today about the causes of Detroit's failure and it's job loss, car companies leaving, suburb flight (experienced by every city regardless of its leadership) and, yes weather. Detroit was attractive in 1950 despite the terrible weather. Detroit and other rust belt cities, once the promise of jobs was gone, lost population to folks moving south and south west.
This is basic stuff.
You'd just rather screech about "Because Democrat!"
Sad.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
One last point Larry: if you think getting your news from "www.freedomoutpost.com" (Don't Tread on Me!) makes you an informed citizen, then you haven't learned much in your years on this planet. Again, a shame. Truly a shame.
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