Pulled apart my fuel tank and...WOW

Regardless of how Tornado ( or anyone for that matter ) have used the foam it would appear that ATL foam has a life of only two years at best which means that you all will probably need to trash the stuff you have now.

do a search under....... ATL fuel cell foam life expectancy.... its all there on the site under faq's
 
Regardless of how Tornado ( or anyone for that matter ) have used the foam it would appear that ATL foam has a life of only two years at best which means that you all will probably need to trash the stuff you have now.

do a search under....... ATL fuel cell foam life expectancy.... its all there on the site under faq's

Ouch.

Getting trickier not to get fuel with ethanol added as well. Especially now the rules have changed regarding having to notify consumers...

I decided that it was just not worth it to have foam unless I was racing.
 

Ron Earp

Admin
Regardless of how Tornado ( or anyone for that matter ) have used the foam it would appear that ATL foam has a life of only two years at best which means that you all will probably need to trash the stuff you have now.


Q How often do I need to replace safety foam baffling?
A Modern anti-explosion foams offer good gasoline resistance and rarely need replacing during the fuel bladder life. However, oxygen bearing fuels do affect safety foam which should be inspected several times per year, and replaced every 2 years

Two years with oxygenated fuels. YMMV with that one, but I had perfectly good foam in my old Z race car that was at least 15 years old. Looked fine and just as good as the new stuff I replaced it with in 2009.
 

Andy Sheldon

Tornado Sports Cars
GT40s Sponsor
We do not maufacture our tanks in house. They are made by an outside supplier.

We have used foam in our tanks for 30 years and never had cause to replace it in any tanks supplied.

My personal GT40 has tanks that are 12 years old and there are no problems.

Dylan did not buy his tanks from us. I think they are 3rd hand.

Frank. Thanks very much for the free advert.

Andy
 
Bob,
Why not have Tornado supply you with the right tanks, install those and send the others back, seeing that they gave you the wrong ones in the first place? In their first post they state that all their cars come with Explosafe tanks. Didn't you just get your car fairly recently? Andy, what year did transition from foam filled to the new tanks?
 
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We do not maufacture our tanks in house. They are made by an outside supplier.

Isn't that irrelevant? If you supply them, you should be responsible for them, right?

We have used foam in our tanks for 30 years and never had cause to replace it in any tanks supplied.

My personal GT40 has tanks that are 12 years old and there are no problems.

Isn't this the real point that should be made? I don't see the point of all the fuss- it's well known that foam has been the standard in tanks for a long time, and that before oxygenated fuel, it lasted many years. Now we have a change in fuel, and that may drive the preferred anti-slosh material to be something else. But it seems to me to be especially harsh to blame a company for not foreseeing that the fuel chemistry in the US would change over the years and shorten the life of the foam.

Who could have known something like that years ago, when the OP's kit was made? Current cars are a different story, of course, and though anyone with any recent race experience would know about the foam and fuel issue, it's reasonable to imagine that the average GT40 kit buyer might not be clued in.


Dylan did not buy his tanks from us. I think they are 3rd hand.Andy

If Tornado supplied them, whether or not they are 1st or 4th hand doesn't really change things, except for a warranty, does it?

If Tornado didn't supply the tanks, why not just say so, in which case the OP's complaints are mooted.

If Tornado did supply the tanks with a kit, without regard to who actually manufactured them, they are responsible for them.


It seems to me that the actual "problem" is that it is apparently hard to get the old foam out and replace it with whatever new stuff the builder wants to use. That does seem like a problem that Tornado should address.

But the fuss over foam in fuel tanks seems way overblown to me.

Frank. Thanks very much for the free advert.

Andy
 
But the fuss over foam in fuel tanks seems way overblown to me.

I think it depends a lot on what type of foam was used. The OP had slivers of various kinds. Not too sure I'd be happy with that. :)

It's really not too hard to put in an access panel. A couple hours of work and $20/$30 worth of parts with the aluminum, rivnuts, bolts, and gasket. Yes, that should probably be done already by the builder but I'm not too sure any that do that (mine didn't either). I had to install a large siphon/pickup too and putting the port close to that made it easier so doing both at the same time is something I'd consider if you were marginal on the pickup size (mine would only support 450 hp or so, although with a swirl pot it would probably have been OK unless you run flat out for a long period).
 

NickD

Supporter
Just looking at this post from the outside as I am building a GT Forte along with a number of other enthusiasts in the UK. Tornado Tanks are currently listed before UK tax as £595 with baffles, £795 with Foam on their website. Looking at the threads, that £200 of foam looks expensive but I'm sure as most things are, there is more to it from all sides.

Looking at what can be achieved in the UK which seems a very expensive country to live in, I and 3 others drew up plans, some with injection, some without, and ordered our 8 Tanks from a UK fabricator. Mine were delivered Today with a total price less that the difference between with Foam / Baffles above.

In fact, two tanks with baffles and fittings to a design of our choice for less than my local country pub charges for 150 pints of Stella. (for those Stateside - insert Premium European Lager)

And that say England has no manufacturing Industry !

I have taken a good hard look at them Today - Fantastic Quality at a fair price.
 

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To be fair to all the manufacturers proper foam or explosafe is bloody expensive. Eg Explosafe Fuel Baffle System roughly £5 per litre.
Explosafe is especially expensive considering as it's nothing more than aluminium foil with some special cuts in it. £1 for materials, 95p processing, £46 markup...

£200 is not unreasonable for the tanks being 'foam' filled.
 
Just looking at this post from the outside as I am building a GT Forte along with a number of other enthusiasts in the UK. Tornado Tanks are currently listed before UK tax as £595 with baffles, £795 with Foam on their website. Looking at the threads, that £200 of foam looks expensive but I'm sure as most things are, there is more to it from all sides.

Looking at what can be achieved in the UK which seems a very expensive country to live in, I and 3 others drew up plans, some with injection, some without, and ordered our 8 Tanks from a UK fabricator. Mine were delivered Today with a total price less that the difference between with Foam / Baffles above.

In fact, two tanks with baffles and fittings to a design of our choice for less than my local country pub charges for 150 pints of Stella. (for those Stateside - insert Premium European Lager)

And that say England has no manufacturing Industry !

I have taken a good hard look at them Today - Fantastic Quality at a fair price.

Hi Nick,

Care to name this fabricator as I might well be needing some tanks?

Regards,


Graham.
 
I was considering foam for my tanks but after speaking to ATL tech support I decided to join the rest of the guys and not bother. Basically the guy at ATL said that with modern ethanol etc based fuels you should inspect frequently and change after a few years, ideally he said you should empty the tank as well, fine if you racing but no good if like me your cars primarily going to be used on the road. I did look into the Explosafe material but I phoned a really helpful guy who distributes the stuff and he said he didn't have enough at the time and he was struggling to get more stock as demand was high.

As Nick mentioned above, me, Dave, Nick and Andrew teamed up to get some made and a chap called Josh from JAF fabrication made us each a set from our design (Baffles and trap door). My set arrived today and I cant believe I got such a well made set of tanks for such good value, an engineer in the office walked past and commented on the good quality of the welds and fabrication. I'm well chuffed and I'm going to put them against the car tonight to see how they look :).
 

NickD

Supporter
Hi Nick,

Care to name this fabricator as I might well be needing some tanks?

Regards,


Graham.

Graham, Ping me your personal email and I'll forward details. remember costs for us were extremely competitive as we had 4 sets made, also in the process of having our stainless Tank straps made also.

Thanks.



Nick.
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
Interesting study done by USAF and Canadian Forces on aluminum explosive safe material. Long but very complete. Skip to conclusion. Very good stuff. Little (near none) contamination, very little wear to aluminum tank wall, and no restriction to fuel flow.

Test 100 gallon wing tank filed to 85% explosive safe material and JP-4 air fuel mixture held up to 23mm incendiary delayed fuse projectile without explosion and fire limited to spillage due to penetration holes.

http://www.explosafe.ch/pdf/explosafe.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a093125.pdf
 
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Interesting study done by USAF and Canadian Forces on aluminum explosive safe material. Long but very complete. Skip to conclusion. Very good stuff. Little (near none) contamination, very little wear to aluminum tank wall, and no restriction to fuel flow.

Test 100 gallon wing tank filed to 85% explosive safe material and JP-4 air fuel mixture held up to 23mm incendiary delayed fuse projectile without explosion and fire limited to spillage due to penetration holes.

http://www.explosafe.ch/pdf/explosafe.pdf

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a093125.pdf

Well that's very reassuring, it's what SouthernGT use so I am a happy man :thumbsup:
 
Anyone have any luck getting it in the US though? I wrote the company and it took close to a week to get a reply and it sounds like I have to purchase it in quantity from Switzerland or something.
 
Hi guys
Does anyone know if explosafe is just expanded aluminum mesh or is it something else..?
I came across some today.. about $140NZD for a 8' x 4' sheet
Could I use some thing like that..?

Cheers Craig
 
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