A very powerful piece of writing by Bryan Forbes

Keith, I agree with your sentiment regarding Afghan A and Afghan B.

For countless decades we have sought to apply western democratic values to other regions of the world with vastly different results. Abject failures include swathes of Africa, and currently Afghanistan.

How about instead of glassing the poppy fields (which I have no problem with), why not try the sanctioning of growth through licencing for use in medical and pharmaceutical fields. Its an old argument, but one i'd be interested in hearing from you guys...

Graham.
 
I believe that the Afgan problem is solvable, but it is going to take a determined will that the Western Nations do not have. It seems that we don't have the stomach for hard choices (Kieth's comments regarding glassing over) and the absolute resolve to finish the job. Our Area Commander has endorsed a solution which is 'politically correct' for our times and he may have the best solution in that context. Our Commander in Chief origionally agreed with him and is now waffling (shades of Vietnam-ask me how I know!)
The Taliban will not go away overnight. This game will take decades to play out. What is not or should not be on the table for discussion is the Allies running away. That will bolster the Taliban and put huge pressure on Pakistan (and ultimately India) Can anyone see the possibility that Pakistan falls to extremist leadership armed with Nuclear Weapons? We cannot let that happen. Our children will pay the price.
Sometimes, a generation must fight the common enemy of peaceful nations at great cost. To not do so will ensure that peace will not endure. Ask any miltary man and he will tell you that is the price he is willing to pay. As for our Pols...not so much.
I for one do not believe that we cannot prevail against this evil foe if we take the gloves off and do the proper job...right now, with no mercy for our enemies. Brutal it will be to the locals caught in the crossfire, but even more brutal to the non-combatants if we walk away. The choices are distasteful, but that is what we reaped from our shortsighted political solutions in the last century. I'll end my rant and let others comment.

Garry
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Just a small sample about the poppy fields I found by using Mr. Google.
90% of the worlds heroin comes from this source, while politicians sit on their hands and talk of "solutions" and "alternative crops". Why wont they learn from History? Nuke the bastards and get the hell-out.

The dilemma of Afghanistan's poppy production has long bedeviled civilian and military strategists. The crop makes up 90% of the world's opium, which is used to make heroin, and a third of the nation's gross domestic product, according to the United Nations. Opium profits fuel the insurgency, but so does destroying the poppy crops of poor farmers, says Lt. Col. John Glaze, whose 2007 report for the Army War College argued against eradication.
Poppy production has skyrocketed since the 2001 U.S. invasion. President Bush proposed chemical spraying to kill poppy fields, but the Afghan government and European countries resisted that step as too harsh. In the past two years, the Bush administration pursued a strategy that combined limited poppy-plant eradication by hand and relatively modest programs to help farmers grow alternative crops.
The military also began targeting opium traffickers, as opposed to growers. Former Afghanistan counternarcotics coordinator Thomas Schweich says that formula succeeded in driving down opium production by 6% last year, and the number of acres under cultivation dropped 19%. Other experts, including Felbab-Brown, attribute that decline to market saturation and drought.
Holbrooke criticized the Bush strategy in a column in TheWashington Post last year. "Even without aerial eradication," he wrote, "the program, which costs around $1 billion a year, may be the single most ineffective program in the history of American foreign policy. It's not just a waste of money. It actually strengthens the Taliban and al-Qaeda."
Holbrooke repeated that view March 22 at a public forum in Brussels.
"We have gotten nothing out of it — nothing," he said. "It is true that some … opium crop has been destroyed, but it hasn't hurt the Taliban one iota. We're often pushing farmers into the Taliban hands."
Felbab-Brown said providing wheat seeds to farmers in exchange for not growing opium won't work.
"Afghan farmers can buy wheat seeds, that's not the problem," she said. "The problem is that they can't make sufficient living on it or get access to credit and land. Wheat is also much less labor-intensive so it won't be able to absorb the same amount of farmers as opium poppy can."
Obama said Friday that officials will monitor the growth of illegal opium production in Afghanistan as one measure of progress in the nation.
In an e-mail to USA TODAY, Holbrooke said the opium strategy was not fully formulated.
"In the time available we could not design an all new program but there was unanimity that there was significant flaws in the current program," he said. "Now that the Strategic Review is done, we will turn our attention towards agriculture sector job creation and alternative livelihoods while at the same time the government has to go after the drug lords."
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
The MPs in the UK are just so thick, they still do not get the fact that a majority of the public are seething with anger about the expenses scandal. Now they want a pay rise. This from the Telegraph:

MPs' expenses: pay rise for MPs to stop rebellion

MPs are to be offered a pay rise to make up for a loss of income from expenses claims under plans drawn up by Gordon Brown to quell a growing back-bench rebellion.



<!-- Make sure there is no whitespoace at the end of the bline -->By Andrew Porter, Political Editor
Published: 10:26PM BST 20 Oct 2009

commons_1472010c.jpg
Many MPs have argued throughout the expenses scandal that MPs need a significant pay rise Photo: EPA


The Prime Minister is desperate to avoid a Commons mutiny over next month’s report by Sir Christopher Kelly, which is expected to sweep away many of the MPs’ allowances.
Under Mr Brown’s plan, any rise in an MP’s basic salary of £64,766 would be paid for by a reduction in ministers’ wages. Currently, 98 MPs serve as members of the Government, earning between £96,000 and £197,000. If they took a £20,000 pay cut, it would save almost £2 million and mean all 646 MPs could be paid around £3,000 more without further cost to the taxpayer.
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The prospect of a pay rise for MPs just months after the expenses scandal would risk uproar. However, Mr Brown is desperate to avoid further criticism from his own MPs after Sir Thomas Legg’s insistence that they pay back thousands of pounds in excessive or incorrect claims.
Some have threatened to ignore his requests to repay public money.
The Prime Minister believes that Sir Christopher’s report will represent a bigger challenge to party leaders than the Legg inquiry as it is likely to recommend a series of measures that will severely curtail the expenses and allowances MPs are allowed to claim.
In particular, it is understood that he will forbid MPs from employing family members, a move that is certain to cause considerable anger among backbenchers.
Mr Brown has already said he will accept Sir Christopher’s findings. With MPs growing increasingly fearful of a stricter regime, he wants to offer them a deal that effectively buys their silence.
“If we show that ministers are being paid less and the overall bill in terms of salary is not going up then it could be done,” a Downing Street source said.
The total ministerial wage bill stands at almost £12.3 million, including the salaries of 18 members of the Lords who serve as ministers. The Prime Minister’s salary is £197,000 and he draws £192,414. Cabinet ministers are entitled to £144,520 a year, but have chosen to draw £140,176. Junior ministers earn £106,000 and ministerial aides £96,000. Members of the Lords who serve as ministers have a starting salary of just over £73,000.
Many MPs, including some who wrote to Sir Christopher, have argued throughout the expenses scandal provoked by The Daily Telegraph’s disclosures, that MPs need a significant pay rise. They have maintained that MPs assumed the expenses and allowances were effectively part of the salary to which they were entitled.
It is doubtful, therefore, that many backbenchers would be content with a modest pay rise. But they are also aware that any suggestions of an increase will be met with considerable public anger.
Mr Brown hopes to persuade voters that the move would make MPs’ pay more transparent and less reliant on “top-up” allowances.
Any increase would have to be agreed by the Senior Salaries Review Body, but Mr Brown believes that if he can get agreement between party leaders the new salary levels could be in place by next year.
The move will be seen as an attempt by Mr Brown to outflank the Conservatives by taking the initiative on expenses reform.
The Prime Minister has been criticised for being slower to respond to the scandal than David Cameron.
Mr Cameron has already indicated that he is willing to cut the cost of government. He has said that, under his premiership, ministers may have to do more work for less money.
The Conservative leader has also hinted that his Cabinet will be smaller than Labour’s and a host of junior roles could be swept aside.
According to Downing Street sources, Mr Brown realised the full extent of MPs’ anger following this week’s meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party.
Labour MPs are angry that they will be forced to sack wives or husbands, who work for as little as £16,000 a year, in order to comply with the new rules.
Sir Christopher is known to favour the system used by the US House of Representatives which bans family members from working for elected representatives.
MPs are likely to face a wholesale shake-up in the way they can claim for their second homes after widespread abuse of the system was exposed by The Daily Telegraph including the practice of “flipping.”
Sir Christopher Kelly’s report is expected to call for MPs to rent homes in London or their constituency rather than buy a house which can be exploited for personal gain.
Mr Brown will have a particularly difficult job persuading the public that MPs deserve a pay rise following the Treasury announcement earlier this month of a pay freeze among large parts of the public sector.
Last week Mr Brown was assailed by Labour MPs angry that Sir Thomas Legg had made retrospective demands for expenses legitimately claimed to be paid back.
Backbenchers believe Mr Brown blundered by allowing Sir Thomas to make the wholesale requests for repayment and that the Prime Minister, by agreeing to pay back £12,500, was forcing them to abide by the ruling.
 
The trouble is that a number of those MPs caught fiddling their expenses will probably be re-elected at the next election by those constituencies that have brain dead electorates which always elect an MP from the same party, however bad the party or prospective MP.

God help us all - until the revolution that is!

Chris
 

Keith

Moderator
REDFLAG.gif



Brown's Version

The working class can kiss my ass
I got the The Prime Minister's job at last.

You can tell old Blair I'm off the dole -
He can stick his Red Flag up his 'ole!

Then raise the Workers' Bomb on high!
Beneath its shroud we'll gladly die!

Though all our critics do shout, "Balls!"
They'll be beneath it when it falls.


:hanged:
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
The MPs of the Government in the UK had an eighty two (82) day break (recess) for summer. Now the Leader of the House of Commons,Deputy Leader of the Labour Party and Minister for Women, Harriet Harperson has decreed that Christmas
recess will be from December 16th lasting possibly until January 5th 2010.
That will make 111 days in recess in 12 months including the Easter and Half term recesses in 2009. The leader of the house has decreed that this is not time off but time to allow the MPs to return to their individual constituancies and work there as well.
Give me a break...........
 
Last edited:

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
The MPs of the Government in the UK had an eighty two (82) day break (recess) for summer. Now the Leader of the House of Commons,Deuty Leader of th eLabour Party and Minister for Women, Harriet Harperson has decreed that Christmas
recess will be from December 16th lasting possibly until January 5th 2010.
That will make 111 days in recess in 12 months including the Easter and Half term recesses in 2009. The leader of the house has decreed that this is not time off but time to allow the MPs to return to their individual constituancies and work there as well.
Give me a break...........

Come on Dave, those poor Pollies deserve a break, look at all the stress they have had to endure while that nasty man has been checking their expense claims. Add that to the poor wages they get paid no wonder they need more time off.
Anyway when they are in recess they can't f**k anything up!
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
From The Sunday Times
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October 25, 2009


No 10 ally’s £230,000 expenses bill




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Baroness Goudie, a Labour donor and fundraiser, has lived since childhood in London where her two sons grew up and her husband works as a leading barrister.
However, the baroness tells the Lords her main address is 400 miles away in a Glasgow apartment block. A close neighbour said she had not seen Goudie there for some time.
This has allowed Goudie to claim subsistence allowances intended as payments for peers who are based outside the capital and need help to meet the cost of accommodation in London.
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<!-- END: Module - M63 - Article Related Attachements -->On Friday Goudie acknowledged she did not spend much of her time in the Glasgow flat, although she was there “frequently”. She said she needed a “main residence” in Scotland because it was the base of her non-parliamentary activities.
In the past six months The Sunday Times has identified more than 20 peers whose claims are questionable. This has led to police investigations into Baroness Uddin, Lord Clarke of Hampstead and Lord Taylor of Warwick.
 
David,
I was wondering if you had the expense account for Lord Black. I was wondering what he was billing for his Condo at the Coleman Federal Corrections Suites north of Orlando. I hear there are Vacancies.
Dave
 

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David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
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David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
223 British and 897 USA Troops have lost their lives in Afghanistan up to today.



Coalition Military Fatalities By Year

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" id=ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_GridView1 class=Smalltable border=1 rules=all cellSpacing=0><TBODY><TR class=contactDept><TH scope=col>Year</TH><TH scope=col>US</TH><TH scope=col>UK</TH><TH scope=col>Other</TH><TH scope=col>Total</TH></TR><TR><TD class=contact>2001</TD><TD class=contactNumber>12</TD><TD class=contactNumber>0</TD><TD class=contactNumber>0</TD><TD class=contactNumber>12</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>2002</TD><TD class=contactNumber>49</TD><TD class=contactNumber>3</TD><TD class=contactNumber>17</TD><TD class=contactNumber>69</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>2003</TD><TD class=contactNumber>48</TD><TD class=contactNumber>0</TD><TD class=contactNumber>9</TD><TD class=contactNumber>57</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>2004</TD><TD class=contactNumber>52</TD><TD class=contactNumber>1</TD><TD class=contactNumber>6</TD><TD class=contactNumber>59</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>2005</TD><TD class=contactNumber>99</TD><TD class=contactNumber>1</TD><TD class=contactNumber>31</TD><TD class=contactNumber>131</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>2006</TD><TD class=contactNumber>98</TD><TD class=contactNumber>39</TD><TD class=contactNumber>54</TD><TD class=contactNumber>191</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>2007</TD><TD class=contactNumber>117</TD><TD class=contactNumber>42</TD><TD class=contactNumber>73</TD><TD class=contactNumber>232</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>2008</TD><TD class=contactNumber>155</TD><TD class=contactNumber>51</TD><TD class=contactNumber>88</TD><TD class=contactNumber>294</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>2009</TD><TD class=contactNumber>267</TD><TD class=contactNumber>86</TD><TD class=contactNumber>83</TD><TD class=contactNumber>436</TD></TR><TR class=contactDept><TD>Total</TD><TD align=right>897</TD><TD align=right>223</TD><TD align=right>361</TD><TD>1481</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Image.aspx
<MAP id=imctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_RadChart1 name=imctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_RadChart1> <AREA title="2001: 12" shape=rect alt="" coords=27,132,38,134><AREA title="2002: 69" shape=rect alt="" coords=45,118,56,134><AREA title="2003: 57" shape=rect alt="" coords=64,121,75,134><AREA title="2004: 59" shape=rect alt="" coords=82,120,93,134><AREA title="2005: 131" shape=rect alt="" coords=100,103,111,134><AREA title="2006: 191" shape=rect alt="" coords=119,89,130,134><AREA title="2007: 232" shape=rect alt="" coords=137,79,148,134><AREA title="2008: 294" shape=rect alt="" coords=155,65,166,134><AREA title="2009: 436" shape=rect alt="" coords=174,31,185,134></MAP>

Filter Deaths By Year
<HR><HR>U.S. Fatalities in and around Afghanistan

<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" id=ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_gvTheatre class=Smalltable border=1 rules=all cellSpacing=0><TBODY><TR class=contactDept><TH scope=col>Country of Death</TH><TH scope=col>Fatalities</TH></TR><TR><TD class=contact>Afghanistan</TD><TD class=contactNumber>786</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>Germany (from wounds in theatre)</TD><TD class=contactNumber>10</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>Pakistan</TD><TD class=contactNumber>12</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>USA (from wounds in theatre)</TD><TD class=contactNumber>16</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contact>Uzbekistan</TD><TD class=contactNumber>1</TD></TR><TR class=contactDept><TD>Total</TD><TD align=right>825</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
View Details: U.S. Fatalities In and Around Afghanistan
<HR>IED Fatalities

<STYLE type=text/css>img{ border-style: none; cursor: pointer;} </STYLE><TABLE id=tCountries class=Smalltable><TBODY><TR><TH>Period</TH><TH>IED</TH><TH>Total</TH><TH>Pct</TH></TR><TR><TD class=contactNumber>2001</TD><TD class=contactNumber>0</TD><TD class=contactNumber>4</TD><TD class=contactNumber>0.00</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contactNumber>2002</TD><TD class=contactNumber>4</TD><TD class=contactNumber>25</TD><TD class=contactNumber>16.00</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contactNumber>2003</TD><TD class=contactNumber>3</TD><TD class=contactNumber>26</TD><TD class=contactNumber>11.54</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contactNumber>2004</TD><TD class=contactNumber>12</TD><TD class=contactNumber>27</TD><TD class=contactNumber>44.44</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contactNumber>2005</TD><TD class=contactNumber>20</TD><TD class=contactNumber>73</TD><TD class=contactNumber>27.40</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contactNumber>2006</TD><TD class=contactNumber>41</TD><TD class=contactNumber>130</TD><TD class=contactNumber>31.54</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contactNumber>2007</TD><TD class=contactNumber>78</TD><TD class=contactNumber>184</TD><TD class=contactNumber>42.39</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contactNumber>2008</TD><TD class=contactNumber>152</TD><TD class=contactNumber>263</TD><TD class=contactNumber>57.79</TD></TR><TR><TD class=contactNumber>2009</TD><TD class=contactNumber>225</TD><TD class=contactNumber>376</TD><TD class=contactNumber>59.84</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
I was involved in the Nimrod Fleet in the Royal Air Force from 1970 until 1976 full time and then until 1994 in the reserve. The aeroplanes were getting rather old by that time having been in service nearly twenty five years and had loads of hasty mods done as a result of the Falklands war and Gulf War 1 such as refuelling probes and specialist comms equipment and various missiles. The last dramatic incident was aeroplane number XV230 in Kandahar when the crew were lost as the aeroplane exploded in mid air. The Crew was from Nimrod Squadron 120 based at R.A.F. Kinloss in Scotland and it was crew 3.
I flew as part of 120sqn crew 3 until 1994 and though the crew had been changed several times since my involvement in that crew, on Maritime Squadrons crew affinity and kinship always remains.
Today, a report that has taken nearly three years - since the accident - has been published and names quite a few senior people that are in some way to blame and the R.A.F along with the Ministry of Defence are guilty of putting cost savings before airworthiness. Waiting for this report has been a difficult period for the families but now they have some specific names to target and I really do now expect some massive law suits to follow in the footsteps of this tragedy.
I for one get some comfort from the fact that some lessons may have been learned but in this cost conscious world we live in, these wars are maybe just one cost too far.
Here is the Telegraph write up on this report:

Nimrod crash review: report criticises MoD and private companies

Four senior military officers, five defence contractors and a former civil servant have been strongly criticised over the events that led to the crash of Nimrod XV 230 in 2006.



<!-- Make sure there is no whitespoace at the end of the bline -->By James Kirkup
Published: 8:00PM GMT 28 Oct 2009

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In particular, BAE bears substantial responsibility, the report says Photo: PA


The ten men are all identified as key figures in a history of the flaws that brought down Nimrod XV230 on 2 September 2006 began decades before the aircraft took off on its final flight.
The independent review by Charles Haddon-Cave QC details a long list of failures and oversights by technicians, defence companies, commanders and ministers that led to the crash, which killed 14 British service personnel.
<!-- BEFORE ACI -->
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It details a mistakes and oversights dating back to 1969, the same year Nimrod XV230 entered service with the Royal Air Force.
The review is clear that the XV230 caught fire and crashed because fuel overflowed during a mid-air refuelling operation, and then ignited when it came into contact with the hot metal of a duct from the aircraft’s supplementary cooling pack.
The pack, which included pipes heated to more than 400 C, was a long-standing modification made to Nimrods, installed in 1979 to ensure the aircraft’s huge array of electronic equipment could be kept cool enough to function. The pack combined with an earlier modification, made in 1969, to channel hot air away from the plane’s engines.
Another botched modification came in 1989 when the Nimrods were adapted for air-to-air-refuelling. The new systems raised the risk of fuel leaking, the inquiry found.
The three changes introduced critical design flaws to the aircraft which played a “crucial part” in the loss of the XV230. Yet for years, those flaws were missed by engineers and not addressed by an “unsatisfactory” RAF maintenance regime.
In 1998, an official MoD report warned of the dangers posed by continuing to fly the Nimrods, aircraft which even then were considered to be “ageing”.
In 2002, the MoD introduced new regulations requiring a “safety case” for all military aircraft. These all-round assessments were intended to “identify, assess, and mitigate potentially catastrophic hazards before they could cause an accident.”
In the case of the Nimrod, the safety case was drawn up by BAE Systems and an “Integrated Project Team” at the MoD. QinetiQ, a defence firm, advised on the project.
The safety review represented “the best opportunity to capture the serious design flaws in the Nimrod which had lain dormant for years,” the review concluded.
However, that opportunity was spectacularly and disastrously missed.
The safety case was “a lamentable job from start to finish” and “riddled with errors,” Mr Haddon-Cave said. “It missed the key dangers. Its production is a story of incompetence, complacency, and cynicism.”
In particular, BAE bears substantial responsibility, the report says.
Its work was “riddled with errors of fact, analysis and risk categorisation”. In particular, the “catastrophic fire hazard” presented by the supplementary cooling pack duct was wrongly assessed as “tolerable”.
That assessment is especially striking because while the BAE review was underway, another Nimrod, XV227, suffered a rupture in the duct of its SCP. That incident should have been a “wake-up call” to the danger, the inquiry found. But the warning was ignored.
And when BAE handed over the safety case work to the BAE, it gave the “misleading impression” that it had fully and properly completed the work. That left the MoD with a “false sense of security” about Nimrod safety.
Three senior BAE employees are named and criticised in the review:
Chris Lowe, the chief airworthiness engineer, Richard Oldfield, the the leader of the Nimrod review for BAE Systems; and Eric Prince he company's flight systems and avionics manager
If they had done their job properly, Mr Haddon-Cave said, the risk of a fire would have been reduced and the accident “would have been avoided.”
The MoD team involved in the safety case also failed, he said. If it had done its job properly and adequately supervised the BAE work, there was a “good prospect” that the accident would have been averted.
The MoD team was led by Group Captain (now Air Commodore) George Baber. Wing Commander Michael Eagles oversaw the safety case. Both are still serving. Also criticised is Frank Walsh, an MoD official who was the safety manager for the Nimrod review. He has now left the MoD.
Martyn Mahy and Colin Blagrove of Qinetiq, are also criticised.
As well as attributing blame over the safety case, the review also strongly criticises a wider culture around safety and risk in defence that was created by politicians and senior commanders.
The catalogue of failures to address the safety risks came amid a budget cuts and a gradual shift in the culture of the British defence establishment that prized financial management over operational safety, the review found.
General Sir Sam Cowan and Air Chief Marshal Sir Malcolm Pledger, who both held the post of Chief of Defence Logistics, were both culpable for that, the review said. Both have since retired.
Perhaps most damagingly for the MoD, it also makes clear that the XV230 should not even have been in the air on the day of the accident.
Like other Nimrod MR2 aircraft, XV230 was due to be replaced by a generation of new MR4 Nimrods in 2003. Yet mismanagement and bureaucratic errors in the procurement of the new aircraft meant that deadline was missed.
The new planes have still not entered service, meaning that Nimrods like the XV230 go on flying.
The review concludes: “But for the delays in the Nimrod MRA4 replacement programme, XV230 would probably have no longer have been flying in September 2006.”
 
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David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Five deaths overnight - an afghan policeman responsible. CAN WE, THE U.K. STAY THERE ANY LONGER?
229 deaths now making it worse than the Falklands.

Do not just sit on your hands. Write to your MP immediately.
 
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