They are removable but on your head be it.....literaly
All about the RCR LMP1...
- Thread starter J. Miller
- Start date
If removal of the sidebars doesnt reduce driver safety below original LMP requirements... a guy could entertain the thought. That is assuming the LMP/safety standards from 11 years ago are still considered safe & adequate today. That I dont know.
Are the NASA/SCCA sidebars truly required to be safe? I dont know enough to make a call on that one either.
So... really... I dont know all that much on this particular topic; therefore, I shall defer to what you think is safe and what you are comfortable putting your name on.
If I get some time tomorrow I'll give you a ring and we can chat a bit perhaps?
Are the NASA/SCCA sidebars truly required to be safe? I dont know enough to make a call on that one either.
So... really... I dont know all that much on this particular topic; therefore, I shall defer to what you think is safe and what you are comfortable putting your name on.
If I get some time tomorrow I'll give you a ring and we can chat a bit perhaps?
ACO and IMSA rules regarding car design have changed quite a bit since then after all of the flying cars, Alboreto's death, and so on. I can't state specifics off the top of my head, though I have seen them summarized before. There have been changes to roll structures, rooflines, and so on.
I'm not familiar with SCCA/NASA.
Thats the plan... certainly not questioning Fran's knowledge and direction on the build. He knows his market for this car (real racers... not hobby racers like me) and he knows the rules that will allow the RCR LMP on tracks accross the country.
Fran and myself already had an email exchange about the sidebars last week and I was thinking that if the main hoop was made thicker/stronger like the original and the sidebars dropped down like the orginal... that the car would certainly be as safe as the original. I know that's a bit of an assumption... but it was worth investigating, at the time, to see if there were any configuration options available.
Right then... nuff said... lets talk about something else now:thumbsup:
Howard Jones
Supporter
The reason I really like a SLC for track day type track work IS the full cover of the roll hoops and side bars. The LMP side bars come as close as possible without a full halo cage. The side bars are a very good idea and when combined with sharing the track with 4000 pound full size cars in is a MUST!!
The main threat is the height of the driver head in relation to the height of the bumpers of the big sedans. Pretty much right between the eyes if you get your prototype stalled right in the middle of the track and facing traffic. In this case the side bars will save your life. The other worry would be going off into a tire wall and eating a stack of tires. Again the side bars will deflect the incoming debre over your head.
Good addition Fran. Thanks for thinking of your customers safety. Don't take them out guys!
The main threat is the height of the driver head in relation to the height of the bumpers of the big sedans. Pretty much right between the eyes if you get your prototype stalled right in the middle of the track and facing traffic. In this case the side bars will save your life. The other worry would be going off into a tire wall and eating a stack of tires. Again the side bars will deflect the incoming debre over your head.
Good addition Fran. Thanks for thinking of your customers safety. Don't take them out guys!
I am a long time member at Spring Mtn. And yes, members can run about anything they wish on the track. But with those track privileges comes the assumption that each member is fully knowledgeable and experienced as to modern track /racing protocols. If a member is short in any areas of track/racing knowledge and behaviors, it is expected of him to participate ONLY with or after proper professional instruction.
Spring Mtn. is the national center for Radical race cars, as well as Corvette and Lotus. Each of these open Radical roadster type race cars is very similar to the new RCR LMP1 car. Every Radical that has been built has driver protection side roll bars. In all of my years I have never seen an open roadster race car without side roll bars
Judging from the quote above, I would strongly recommend that you attend the Radical racing school at Spring Mtn. You would then get a much much better idea as to what a hugely powerful LMP1 track monster will actually be like, and you will learn all of the basics to get along smoothly with the other drivers, members and instructors at Spring Mtn. These Radicals have considerably less HP than a LMP1 with a LS engine, but I would be very surprised if you are able to utilize anywhere close to all of the available HP in the Radical. I promise you that doing a Radical racing school will fill in innumerable holes you may have in what you are getting into with a super powerful LMP1 track monster. All of this translates into one's personal confidence. Learning to properly track such a powerful beast is a serious matter indeed.
I look forward to meeting you, and I wish only the best of experiences for you and your wonderful LMP1 race car at Spring Mtn, and anywhere you may take it.
Radical Division - Radical Race Cars and Radical Racing | Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch
A ride around Spring Mtn. in a Radical. In a powerful LMP1 the track times would be only about 4 sec. better, so what you see here is much the same as being in a LMP1, but of course, the engine sound would be very different .
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U43siRA67s[/ame]
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Ubet... I am light on racing experience and was already planning on attending a radical school this spring to build my skill level prior to pushing the RCR LMP to any kind of limit.
It is important to note, as you know, that at Spring Mountain... if you are not in the Radical races... which the LMP will not be... the proximity to other cars on the track and corresponding risk is an order of magnitude lower. Radical races are pretty much a dog fight into the first couple of corners until the pack spreads out. That doesnt mean safety on the LMP isnt important... quite the oposite... it just means the risk is far less as compared to racing in the radical series.
Fundamentally I am not a reckless guy. The plan was and is to slowly work up to either my limit or the cars limit.
It is important to note, as you know, that at Spring Mountain... if you are not in the Radical races... which the LMP will not be... the proximity to other cars on the track and corresponding risk is an order of magnitude lower. Radical races are pretty much a dog fight into the first couple of corners until the pack spreads out. That doesnt mean safety on the LMP isnt important... quite the oposite... it just means the risk is far less as compared to racing in the radical series.
Fundamentally I am not a reckless guy. The plan was and is to slowly work up to either my limit or the cars limit.
a good way to build race time is find an indoor track with karts in the range of 15+hp. and do some road course work. you can learn a lot driving different karts and how they handle, bumping, etc. i've done the scca and open track stuff and they pale in comparison to kart racing wheel to wheel on an indoor track, even to kart racing at larger outdoor tracks. and when you bend an axle or tear something up, you walk away from it, they fix it, their tires, their fuel. i've found around here it costs about $1 a minute, and 2 10 minute sessions are usually good for an evening.
Ubet... and I do have some racing experience. I own/drive a built C6 Z06 on slicks 0.20hp/lb & approx. 1.6g cornering capacity. It's pretty quick and can actually hold my own against the odd Radical SR3 with a 1:52 best time on the 2.2 mile at SMMR. From watching the video I hit alot of the same corner speeds and g's (up to that 1.6g's or so limit of course).
I do; however, consider the LMP (0.26hp/lb & approx 3g's) to be a BIG step change from the Z06... that of which I am respectful of... but I have had a reasonable amount of track time as a foundation. If I didnt... I would not have ordered the LMP.
I do; however, consider the LMP (0.26hp/lb & approx 3g's) to be a BIG step change from the Z06... that of which I am respectful of... but I have had a reasonable amount of track time as a foundation. If I didnt... I would not have ordered the LMP.
Believe me, a Radical is a big stap forward. It will run rings around a GT or Touring car, particularly under braking and through medium to high speed corners. You do need to find someon though who is able to drive a Radical the way they are supposed to be driven. I do come across owners who only use 75% and think they are at the limit.
John
I have been a long time lurker here. And i have to make my first post on this thread. This is amazing at what is going on here. It was something I was thinking of doing, but it was hard to find access to a five axis mill to cut the foam. While I am an artist and all, sculpting is not my specialty. I have been studying the pics for a long time. Havent got any sleep cause of it either. and the pics dont show much detail, but from what i can see, it is the car.
Now here is my questions! As far as inside goes what seat options are there? All people are different and i am of the wider type more in the hip section. Yeah, i am fat but while i have been working out to get back down to where i should be, it has presented its self problems in a lot of seats.
The panel you have where you made the "enclosure" for the cockpit seems a bit snug compared to most lmp cars. Where it looks like a two seater, and some like radical sr9, down to the older ones like tampoli and pilbeams could fit a second driver. It is paneled over. I assume for a gas tank, but seems kinda big? will it be the same? or are you going on a one off style inside like a formula 1 enclosure? Not sure I see room for a shifter? Unless you are going to go paddle shift. which will add some cost.For me this may sound weird, but its a big deal for me as I like my space haha. I would like to have the room for the electronics, radio, telemetry gadgets, and non claustrophobia haha
third question! The forward bars, I understand a lot of people dont like for aesthetic reasons, which i can partially agree on, but i know why they are there. but since it goes to such a small hoop. I am assuming it might cause problems for getting in and out of, and helmet room. I have cracked a helmet before on a cage that was too low. And while it could have had padding, it caused a visibility issue. This I can see a peripheral danger. Maybe why they do not have them and drivers sit a lot lower down.
I will post a few pics to show what I am on about.
What suspension style are you going to go with?
Not sure what size brembos you are looking at using. But akebono brakes on the 370z are huge, bigger rotor too, and quarter the cost as well. might be something to ponder on.
I think you mentioned the hub style where it could be single, or 5 lug. Is there a standard center hub size for center lock wheels? If so, what are the ones that were on the original? size and offset would be a big issue when finding the correct ones.
one style of bars
could just make it like one big radical and do the forward bars like one with this design.
and the cockpit area i was addressing earlier. I am assuming you know all this? cause you are actually doing it from the car. but just potential customer interpretation and feedback
Now here is my questions! As far as inside goes what seat options are there? All people are different and i am of the wider type more in the hip section. Yeah, i am fat but while i have been working out to get back down to where i should be, it has presented its self problems in a lot of seats.
The panel you have where you made the "enclosure" for the cockpit seems a bit snug compared to most lmp cars. Where it looks like a two seater, and some like radical sr9, down to the older ones like tampoli and pilbeams could fit a second driver. It is paneled over. I assume for a gas tank, but seems kinda big? will it be the same? or are you going on a one off style inside like a formula 1 enclosure? Not sure I see room for a shifter? Unless you are going to go paddle shift. which will add some cost.For me this may sound weird, but its a big deal for me as I like my space haha. I would like to have the room for the electronics, radio, telemetry gadgets, and non claustrophobia haha
third question! The forward bars, I understand a lot of people dont like for aesthetic reasons, which i can partially agree on, but i know why they are there. but since it goes to such a small hoop. I am assuming it might cause problems for getting in and out of, and helmet room. I have cracked a helmet before on a cage that was too low. And while it could have had padding, it caused a visibility issue. This I can see a peripheral danger. Maybe why they do not have them and drivers sit a lot lower down.
I will post a few pics to show what I am on about.
What suspension style are you going to go with?
Not sure what size brembos you are looking at using. But akebono brakes on the 370z are huge, bigger rotor too, and quarter the cost as well. might be something to ponder on.
I think you mentioned the hub style where it could be single, or 5 lug. Is there a standard center hub size for center lock wheels? If so, what are the ones that were on the original? size and offset would be a big issue when finding the correct ones.
one style of bars
could just make it like one big radical and do the forward bars like one with this design.
and the cockpit area i was addressing earlier. I am assuming you know all this? cause you are actually doing it from the car. but just potential customer interpretation and feedback
AJ,
what may not be obvious is that the side bars have quite an agressive curve to actually be as wide/wider than the cockpit opening...our seat space in the tub is much larger than the original car....it is designed to easily house a larger guy...that was part of my design brief as I know there are far too many big guys that are not catered for with track/race cars...our opening in the body/cowl is exactly the same as the original...because the bodies are the same....we have deleted the center spar giving even more cockpit space.
I appreciate your feedback....but we will not be changing the way its built, we have a lot of FEA time into the chassis...once in your garage you can do anything you want obviously...
front and rear suspension are both pushrod /bellcrank
hubs are 5 lug standard....
center lock will be based on our replica car pin drive set up...so no off the shelf wheels will work...I think I mentioned that previously somewhere on here....many pages back though
Brakes are the same as we supply on the SLC ...14 inch rotors and 4 piston calipers
No way are we supplying race Brembos at $10k per set on a $44k roller...
Claustrophobia on an open top car....hhmm
There is a large space to the left of the footbox ...with an access panel for fire system, battery, electronics etc ....we have a pretty good idea on whats needed to put one of these together as a runner...and also as a full race car and have taken all of these things into consideration during the design...
We have ridden a few Rodeos already, but appreciate the feedback...
what may not be obvious is that the side bars have quite an agressive curve to actually be as wide/wider than the cockpit opening...our seat space in the tub is much larger than the original car....it is designed to easily house a larger guy...that was part of my design brief as I know there are far too many big guys that are not catered for with track/race cars...our opening in the body/cowl is exactly the same as the original...because the bodies are the same....we have deleted the center spar giving even more cockpit space.
I appreciate your feedback....but we will not be changing the way its built, we have a lot of FEA time into the chassis...once in your garage you can do anything you want obviously...
front and rear suspension are both pushrod /bellcrank
hubs are 5 lug standard....
center lock will be based on our replica car pin drive set up...so no off the shelf wheels will work...I think I mentioned that previously somewhere on here....many pages back though
Brakes are the same as we supply on the SLC ...14 inch rotors and 4 piston calipers
No way are we supplying race Brembos at $10k per set on a $44k roller...
Claustrophobia on an open top car....hhmm
There is a large space to the left of the footbox ...with an access panel for fire system, battery, electronics etc ....we have a pretty good idea on whats needed to put one of these together as a runner...and also as a full race car and have taken all of these things into consideration during the design...
We have ridden a few Rodeos already, but appreciate the feedback...
Any colour you want buddy.....
114 inch wheelbase.
Looks like there is room for a passenger.
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