Announcing Audi 016 with custom 3.17 R&P

As usual, nothing proceeds as quickly as planned. We were to have been deep into road testing by now, but the vendor didn't quite deliver as quickly as anticipated. The first unit is due in Portland any day. The 016 box is currently being machined to accept the new R&P so the plan is to have a road-ready box early in November.

I'll check with John at GTA to confirm, and will upate asap!

Mitch D
 
Okay, folks, we're getting close. The first new R&P is complete through machining and heat treat. It should ship to GTA (German Transaxle of America) in Portland any day. Note that the vendor is in Australia so it'll take about a week to arrive. GTA has my 016 case machined and ready to accept the new part so assuming no surprises, we should have the first unit ready for road test mid-Nov.

It's close enough now that even I'm excited - and my car isn't due till spring. I'll be looking forward to seeing the road-test results.

I'll post updates as soon as I have them over the next couple weeks.

Mitch D
 
I assume the Australian vendor has access to this site and will post impressions of the box in use in his/ her car. I along with many others would be very interested.
 
Rick - the Australian vendor is only machining the new R&P. We designed it here in the US - we just outsourced the manufacture of the component(s). GTA in Portald, Oregon (USA) will be assembling my transaxle and since my RF GT isn't due for some time I arranged for someone nearby with a running car to test drive it as soon as it's ready. That way, for anyone interested, GTA can start taking orders for "production" parts. My assumption was that noone is likely to plunk down some $ without "proof of concept". Well - apparently noone except for me - since I'm the one who is funding the development.
 
Just to keep everyone posted:

The first R&P has arrived! Things moved a bit more slowly than hoped, and even I started to wonder if this day would arrive.

My 016 is being rebuilt at GTA with the new R&P and a Quaife LSD. Plans are to complete the box before Thanksgiving. Road and track tests will begin very shortly thereafter!!

Just to remind everyone, this is the only unit at this time. Production will not proceed unless (10) firm orders are in hand.

I'll keep this thread updated with details as I have them.

Mitch D
 
Re: Announcing Audi 016 with custom 3.17 R&P

Mitch,
Great news and I'm sure things will go well on the test mule. I'm certain many orders will come as soon as folks see that your tests go well.

Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Charlie M

Supporter
Mitch,

Can you get a cost estimate on "option 3" assuming all the box needs is the case machining and the R&P installed? My gearbox is already rebuilt (all new bearings, synchro's, seals, etc) with a Quaiffe LSD installed.

I haven't decided yet whether to go this route or the new gear set. Knowing about how much the R&P option will cost will help.

Thanks,
Charlie
 
Hi, Charlie,

You'll have to contact German Transaxle of America yourself to get this type of information. I'm not 'in business' to sell these items. I'm actually a customer of GTA, and it's GTA who will be selling/servicing as required. I'm just the 'first' guy to get the R&P - that is to say I footed the bill for development so I will own (and ultimately use) the prototype.

You can call or email GTA. Just mention "Audi 016 custom R&P"; you'll probably want to talk to John. Here's their site: http://www.gtainc.biz/

Mitch D
 

Charlie M

Supporter
Thanks Mitch, I'll contact GTA direct.

Also, thanks for everything you've put into this. It must have cost you a bundle to buy a custom ring and pinion.

Charlie
 
Well, I can now report that the new R&P has been successfully built into my Audi 016 type 5N. John at GTA said it all went together beautifully. The final specs have the new R&P at 3.22, which is up only slightly from the original target of 3.17. The meager difference doesn't mean much. Just getting this far exceeds earlier efforts to re-fit new R&P's into the Audi trans, so I'm excited and happy that everything is proceeding as planned (time to deliver the prototype not withstanding!).

So if you haven't already figured out who the test driver is - it's Neal with his fabulous NZ GT. you can check out his website for pics and specs. He's got an awesome motor with mid 400's for hp and torque and he's currently running a stock Audi 016 type 5N, non-LSD trans.

The first trans is being shipped to him as I make this post. I've arranged with him to try it out over the next 3 months or so. Now, sadly, he lives in Washington state and it is fall heading into winter, so he doesn't quite get the everyday sunshine that we enjoy here in Southern California, but I'm sure he'll find some days to get out and drive. He promises to provide us some feedback with regards to drivability, comparison to the stock 016, and whether the Quaife LSD adds anthing too.

So, thats it for now, and keep an eye out for updates on the progress of the testing. Some pics of the trans with the new R&P are on the way to me, and I'll post as soon as I have them (assuming I can figure out how to get a pic into a post!?!)

As noted earlier - if you want one of these, you'll have to contact GTA directly. Once a minimum of (10) orders are firmed up, production will be underway.

Regards,
Mitch D
 
Re: Announcing Audi 016 with custom 3.17 R&P

Just for some comparison, I calculated the following numbers for engine rpms at speed. I compared the new R&P to the proposed 'heavy duty gear set'. Assume tire dia of 26.25. New R&P numbers are first and numbers in [] are for the proposed heavy duty gear set.

Gear RPM
at 65 mph
1 --- (your engine is starting to think about blowing up!)
2 5712 [5468]
3 3647 [3923]
4 2601 [2932]
5 1823 [2203]

at 80 mph
1 ---
2 ---
3 4488 [4828]
4 3201 [3608]
5 2244 [2711]

at 100 mph
1 ---
2 ---
3 5610 [6035]
4 4006 [4510]
5 2805 [3389]

I know there's been some talk back and forth with pros and cons for each system, but when I look at the numbers, there's not such drastic difference that makes either one absolutely correct or incorrect.

Mitch D
 

Charlie M

Supporter
Mitch,

In your comparison above, which final drive ratio did you use for the "heavy duty gearset", 4.11 or 3.89?

Thanks,
Charlie
 
Mitch, Could you run the numbers with the heavy duty gear set and the 3.22 R&P? That might be really the ultimate setup for a highway cruiser. I believe that Stuart has a 5th gear close to the original ratio.
 
Re: Announcing Audi 016 with custom 3.17 R&P

and maybe include the stock ratio to see what the benefit is.

thanks,
Jim
 
Re: Announcing Audi 016 with custom 3.22 R&P

Oh boy, lots of calculations to do, thank goodness for spreadsheets. The formula I'm using is this:

MPH = (RPM * Tire Radius)/(Final-Gear-Ratio*168)

Final Gear ratio is gear ratio * final drive

Solving for RPM we have

RPM = 2*FGR*168*MPH/D (D is tire diameter. I'm using D = 26.23)

The following tables show gearsets with different final drives. 016 is stock gears 1-5, HD is Heavy Duty proposed ratios. Final drive is noted with each table (3.22, 3.89, 4.11). I calculated for road speeds of 30, 65, 100, 150, and for the those with the biggest balls and an ample stretch of clear roadway 200mph.

Sorry if these tables are tough to read - but spacing text is a bi*ch. First column is gear ratio, second is final-gear-ratio, remaining columns are engine RPM's. I put all the values and you can decide for yourself what redline your engine can endure.

016 gears - w/3.22- 30 mph- 65 mph- 100mph- 150 mph- 200 mph
1- 3.6- 11.592- 4455- 9652- 14849- 22274- 29698
2- 2.13- 6.8586- 2636- 5711- 8786- 13179- 17571
3- 1.36- 4.3792- 1683- 3646- 5610- 8414 - 11219
4- 0.97- 3.1234- 1200- 2601- 4001- 6002 - 8002
5- 0.68- 2.1896- 841 - 1823- 2805- 4207 - 5610

016 gears- 3.89- 30 mph- 65 mph- 100mph- 150 mph- 200 mph
1- 3.6- 14.004- 5382- 11660- 17939- 26908- 35878
2- 2.13- 8.2857- 3184- 6899- 10614- 15921- 21228
3- 1.36- 5.2904- 2033- 4405- 6777- 10165- 13554
4- 0.97- 3.7733- 1450- 3142- 4834- 7250- 9667
5- 0.68- 2.6452- 1017- 2202- 3388- 5083- 6777

HD gears- 3.89- 30 mph- 65 mph- 100mph- 150 mph- 200 mph
1- 2.545- 9.90005- 3805- 8243- 12682- 19023- 25363-
2- 1.688- 6.56632- 2523- 5467- 8411- 12617- 16823-
3- 1.211- 4.71079- 1810- 3922- 6034- 9052- 12069-
4- 0.905- 3.52045- 1353- 2931- 4510- 6764- 9019-
5- 0.68- 2.6452- 1017- 2202- 3388- 5083- 6777-

HD gears- 4.11- 30 mph- 65 mph- 100mph- 150 mph- 200 mph
1- 2.545- 10.45995- 4020- 8709- 13399- 20098- 26798
2- 1.688- 6.93768- 2666- 5777- 8887- 13331- 17774
3- 1.211- 4.97721- 1913- 4144- 6376- 9564- 12751
4- 0.905- 3.71955- 1429- 3097- 4765- 7147- 9529
5- 0.68- 2.7948- 1074- 2327- 3580- 5370- 7160


HD gears- 3.22- 30 mph- 65 mph- 100mph- 150 mph- 200 mph
1- 2.545- 8.144- 3130- 6781- 10432- 15648- 20865-
2- 1.688- 5.4016- 2076- 4498- 6919- 10379- 13839-
3- 1.211- 3.8752- 1489- 3227- 4964- 7446- 9928-
4- 0.905- 2.896- 1113- 2411- 3710- 5565- 7419-
5- 0.68- 2.176- 836- 1812- 2787- 4181- 5575-
 
Re: Announcing Audi 016 with custom 3.22 R&P

Mitch, Thanks for the charts. They will really help with making a decision on which gear set to use. I think that the HD set with the 3.89 final drive would be good as it helps with the really low 1st gear and the big jump to second, but combined with the 3.22 R&P I think will be really the best combination. With an engine with good torque in a light car I think that combination would work quite well. I will need to look up the ratios Ford is using in their new GT and see how they compare.
 
Back
Top