Audi 016 v. Passat transaxle.....??

[Cliff Beer]

Just a question or two here about how a new passat (2WD) transaxle would compare to an older audi 016.

1. It looks like the bellhousing pattern is the same....is it?
2. Is the passat transaxle as strong, or stronger, than the 016?
3. Anyone know of a ratios chart for the passat transaxle?
4. Is this the same transaxle that was in a first generation boxster?
5. Anyone ever put an LSD in a passat transaxle?

Thanks for any information.

 

[David]

Which Passat? They had a variety of boxes in.

1) Not sure
2) Some are
3) Yes - depending on which one
4) Maybe / no / kind of
5) Maybe / no / kind of

Some versions had the 01E same as the Audi A4/A6, Skoda Superb etc which is stronger than the 016 and has an LSD available, I think it was the 012 that 'is the same' as the Boxster (except different ratios used).

 

[Eric A.]

Bellhousing pattern is different. The 012 is similar to the Boxster 5-speed but not identical. Not a very strong transmission. Maybe Scott can add some information here.

 

[Matt Whitbread]

I presume you're looking at a 5 speed out of a V6 or 4 banger US market passat? If so, that's an 01A and it is the cousin to the first gen boxster trans. Quaife makes a diff for the 99 and down transmissions, but not the 99+. They changed the differential bearing sizes for no major reason. There are limited slips for the later transmissions, but they're over $2k alone. The quaife is ~$1400 IIRC.

As someone who builds 4-5 VW/Audi manual transmissions a month, I can tell you to leave the 01A in the junkyard unless you're putting it in something under 2000lbs with 300hp or less. Anymore in either department and you're going to rip teeth off.

If this is going in a gt40 with a V8, you really should be running an 01E family 6 speed. They weren't available in FWD only here in the states, but are easy enough to come by from importers/rebuilders. The 01E limited slips are readily available and only ~$1200 and the trans will take 500hp with ease. Some people are running close to 900hp through them with the only failures being from 5000rpm boosted clutch dumps on 375 wide tires. Can't imagine very many transmissions being happy with that abuse.....

If you're shooting for 750+hp, there's a rare version of the 01E that can found with some looking. They have a 10" ring gear and built in oil pump, normal ones are ~7.9" ring gear and splash lube. These big ring gear boxes are holding up to over 1000hp cars in europe and australia. As they can be had for around $3000-3500, they are much cheaper than a ZF or any of the newer porsche boxes.

If you really want to go nuts, PPG makes a straight cut dog gear set and SQS makes a robotic sequential shifter setup that bolts onto the 01E. So for around $10-12K, you could build a sequential dogbox that will hold over 1000hp easily.

 

[Darrin]

If you really want to go nuts, PPG makes a straight cut dog gear set and SQS makes a robotic sequential shifter setup that bolts onto the 01E. So for around $10-12K, you could build a sequential dogbox that will hold over 1000hp easily.

I had Scott make up a 01E with straight cut first and second gears (wanted to change the ratio to get me to 60 MPH in first gear), is cryo treated with a Wavetrac limited slip differential. It doesn't have the robotic shifter (that would be sweet) but he got it to me for considerably less than $10K. If I had it over to do again, and I'd do the same thing. Of course I have put zero miles on it so far.

Anyway, unless I had big bucks to spend I'd opt for the 01E and forget about the 016 or other variant as you say. The 01E is very inexpensive, tough, and fairly easy to get through rebuild shops.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Thank you gents, good information regarding the 01E transaxle.

I understand the 01E didn't come in US imported audi's in 2WD form. Anyone know what European audi/vw came with the 01E in 2WD form?

Also, anyone know what ratios came in the 2WD 01E?

Thank you.

 

[Darrin]

I THINK this is accurate but not all inclusive. I had such a chart at one time but cannot find it right now. This should help a bit though.

01E 300 044 K
94-95 Audi
80/90/Avant/Quattro/Coupe Quattro. Tranmission Codes RSZ, CRB (avoid the Quattro AWD)
1st: 3.5, 2nd: 1.88, 3rd: 1.32, 4th: 1.034, 5th: 0.857, 6th: 0.71, with 37/9 (4.11) final drive, Audi Quattro, Early first gear


01E 300 044 KSP
93-94 Audi 100Q/S4,
95-96 S6
Code CBD
1st: 3.5, 2nd: 1.88, 3rd: 1.32, 4th: 1.034, 5th: 0.857, 6th: 0.71, with 37/9 (4.11) final drive, Audi Quattro, Late first gear


01E 300 049 DSP6
2000-2001 S4
Codes EDU, FTG
1st: 3.5, 2nd: 1.88, 3rd: 1.32, 4th: 1.034, 5th: 0.857, 6th: 0.71, with 37/9 (4.11) final drive Audi Quattro, Late first gear

 

[David]

Avoid any Quattro as you have to convert and they're not as strong (due to the hollow shaft), S4 and S6 are only Quattro.

I'll try and dig out my spreadsheet but the info is on this forum.

I got my 01E out of a Skoda Superb 2.5TDI - it's an Audi gearbox (all over it has Audi markings and the 4-rings) but as it's 'Skoda' it was a fraction of the price!

 

[Matt Whitbread]

I had Scott make up a 01E with straight cut first and second gears (wanted to change the ratio to get me to 60 MPH in first gear), is cryo treated with a Wavetrac limited slip differential. It doesn't have the robotic shifter (that would be sweet) but he got it to me for considerably less than $10K. If I had it over to do again, and I'd do the same thing. Of course I have put zero miles on it so far.

Anyway, unless I had big bucks to spend I'd opt for the 01E and forget about the 016 or other variant as you say. The 01E is very inexpensive, tough, and fairly easy to get through rebuild shops.

Sounds like a great gearbox! That's the beauty of the 01E, there are so many possible combinations, it's inexpensive (comparatively), and is very strong. Yeah, the low outputs aren't ideal, but to many raising the motor 1" to save $5K+ is worth it.

I just threw out the $10-11k figure as a rough estimate if you started with a ~$1500 gearbox, $3500 ppg gear set, $1300 wavetrac, $200 cryo treat, and $3400 sequential shifter setup, and some labor to build it. Obviously that's an all out race setup, not exactly street ideal.

 

[Scott]

I THINK this is accurate but not all inclusive. I had such a chart at one time but cannot find it right now. This should help a bit though.

Those appear to be All Wheel Drive ratios..

The ratios for the FWD boxes are (from my memory)

1-2 3.50 1.89 or 3.75 2.07
3 1.23 or 1.32
4 .93 or .87
5 .73 or .68
6 .56 or .60

There is also a very close ratio FWD 01E whose ratios are insanely close (6th gear is .88)

Final 3.875 for the majority of them. 3.60 for an uber rare 5 speed unit.

The large ring gear is 3.70

Also regarding the large ring gear gearboxes, the ring gear is 7.75 inches versus the 7.50 of the normal 01E.

I'm not sure who started the myth of the 01E with 10" ring gear but there is no such thing. The largest ring gear used in an 01E is the Porsche 968 box at I believe 8 inches in diameter. Large 7.75 inch 01E gear is on the left, smaller 7.50 inch gear on the right.

 

[Darrin]

I found my numbers. The first and second are due to the custom setup and are here for reference should anyone want to go that route. The rest are stock to the box.

1st: 2.44
2nd: 1.76
3rd: 1.241
4th: 0.882
5th: 0.659
6th, 0.558
Final drive: 3.875