B.O. Supports Mosque near ground zero.

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
I though Joe Biden had a job...

LMAO! Thanks, VEEK.

.....but, I didn't say the baboon would get the job (you don't hear much about Biden, do you?), just that the Republicans figured the baboon was twice as smart as their last Veep candidate.

While lots of people are looking at these mid-term elections as a harbinger of things to come, I'm not convinced. The majority of citizens in the U.S. voted for Obama/Biden b/c they were more than ready for a change from the status quo.....sure, a few of them may have become disenchanted in the two years that BO/JB have been in office, but I'd bet a paycheck that the huge majority of those who are raising H-E-double L about Bee-OH didn't vote for him in the last election, anyway. The only "poll" that will really count will be the one held in the next presidential election, and I'm thinking more and more that there are not enough of those who voted for Bee-OH the first time that have changed their mind to make a big difference. Two more years is enough time for a lot of opinions to change....either way :idea: .

Now, the Republicans, with their partisan polarization in the congress and their new-found reputation as the "...party of NO", they have alienated a huge part of their former followers. We'll see how the votes fall....

This could be FUN!!!

Cheers from Doug!!
 

Pat

Supporter
LMAO! Thanks, VEEK.

.....but, I didn't say the baboon would get the job (you don't hear much about Biden, do you?), just that the Republicans figured the baboon was twice as smart as their last Veep candidate.

Now, the Republicans, with their partisan polarization in the congress and their new-found reputation as the "...party of NO", they have alienated a huge part of their former followers. We'll see how the votes fall....

This could be FUN!!!

Cheers from Doug!!

No Doug, Mr. Biden made a speech on the economy on Tuesday. The administration's crazy aunt has not been locked up in the attic.

(AP) The Obama administration claimed this week that $100 billion invested in innovative technologies under the economic stimulus law is "transforming the American economy" by putting the nation on track for technological breakthroughs in health care, energy and transportation.
But an examination of details in the 50-page report unveiled Tuesday by Vice President Joe Biden reveals something a bit different: a collection of rosy projections that ignore many of the challenges, pitfalls and economic realities in all those areas. Read the rest at that wonderful institution, CBS. Fact Check: Stimulus Projections Too Optimistic - CBS News

Yet the Commerce Department is expected to revise its estimate of growth in gross domestic product to 1.3% or lower, down from 2.4% — a dismal performance. The Dow is now under 10,000. Unemployment is projected to go over 10% by October.

You also seem to forget that your Democrat Party controls Congress, The White House, mainstream media and "the tone". And when it comes to government growth, intrusive regulation, spending, and crippling taxation, I hope somebody starts saying "no". The current policies are apparently throwing the U.S. economy back into recession. 3Q GDP is going to be ugly and remember all the rosy projections about health care cost and the budget turnaround were predicated on stout growth.

To quote the Clinton reelection campaign slogan, "It's the economy stupid!". Mr. Obama is exacly following the steps of George H.W. Bush. Remember "read my lips: no new taxes"?
How about: "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.”?
If history is an indicator, people will vote their pocketbooks.
And no, this isn't fun...
 
+1 Veek !!!! If you listen to some of the more mainstream gloom and doomers, you will find the Dow at 5000 in a few years. God help us if that happens.

Doug, people saying no are doing it because they don't like where the country is going. If you don't think the tide of public thought has changed, look at the presidential numbers I posted a few pages ago. These are recent. Judge for yourself.

Just read this:

Breaking News Alert
The New York Times
Fri, August 27, 2010 -- 8:38 AM ET
-----

U.S. Growth in Second Quarter Is Lowered to 1.6% Pace

Economic statistics released Friday offered the clearest sign
yet that the recovery in the United States had slowed to a
crawl. The government lowered its estimate of economic growth
in the second quarter to an annual rate of 1.6 percent, down
from an initial estimate of 2.4 percent issued last month.

The revision is a significant slowdown from the annual rate
of 3.7 percent in the first quarter and 5 percent in the last
three months of 2009.

The news follows dismal statistics this week on July home
sales and factory orders. Economists are now concerned that
the outlook for job creation, which has been spluttering all
summer, could deteriorate further.

Because forecasters had expected an even worse growth
estimate, the markets reacted positively in the first few
minutes, as traders awaited a policy speech later on Friday
morning from the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben S.
Bernanke.

Read More:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/28/business/economy/28econ.html?emc=na
 
Just found this:
Here is the link but the text follows:
NBC/MSNBC & YouTube teamed with progressive orgs with financial ties to ACORN in 2008 | RedState

Posted by ladyimpactohio (Profile)
Thursday, August 26th at 2:30PM EDT
14 Comments
Well folks, looks like I could be “peeling off” a few more here. Not only do conservatives have to contend with Obama’s OFA (Organizing for America), progressive orgs like MoveOn, SEIU, et al in massive Get Out the Vote (GOTV) efforts but now I’ve discovered to my chagrin that NBC, MSNBC and YouTube are in the mix.

How did I get here? I’m not going to divulge all of my “Mrs. James Bond” tactics but it’s easier to just put it up on the screen in pictures.

I started out by wanting to delve further into the ultra-progressive cell phone company CREDO which has donated over $65 million to progressive causes but got side-tracked when I discovered what I’m about to show you. CREDO had its beginnings from Working Assets:

Working Assets is a for-profit business that markets services, including phone services and credit cards, to a liberal demographic, and provides a small percentage of its annual profit to non-profit liberal and activist organizations.

And if you scroll down to the bottom of the page you will see that Drummond Pike was the co-founder.

Working Assests and Credo fund ACORN and it’s voter registration arm Project Vote. As the screen shots from 2007 and 2008 illustrate. Click to enlarge.





Here is Working Assets web page. Since a lot of these web pages tend to go to “URL heaven” I’m going to give you a screen shot of their “Activism Center.” Highlighting is mine:



Note the above highlighted paragraph:

To further strengthen our democracy in the run-up to the 2008 election, we helped 2.5 million Americans register to vote and organized our landmark Election Protection program [emphasis mine] of volunteers, who fanned out across the U.S. to monitor polls and guarantee free and fair elections.

What many on the Right may not realize is that Election Protection and Election Administration are code words used by the Left to stop legitimate solutions to problems within our electoral system. Groups like ACORN and Project Vote have routinely sued Secretaries of State across the country to stop voter ID bills and prevent states from removing dead and inactive voters from the rolls. The term Election Protection is thrown around on the left as a way to convey what they like to portray as targeted attacks on minorities.
So I googled Election Protection and came up with this. Header is below:



We get a list of all their member organizations. ACLU, Alliance for Justice et al. The Alliance for Justice members are mostly legal orgs but also contains Planned Parenthood and others protecting women’s abortion rights. SEIU as no surprise is on the member list but I didn’t screen shot it.

Now on to another screen shot of members:



We see NAACP, Deepak Bhargava’s Center for Community Change, Color of Change and CREDO mobile. However, if one scrolls down further we find these other “members.” And the mega-surprise for me here folks was, as you guessed it:



NBC News, MSNBC, and YouTube. Partners in a massive GOTV effort in 2008. Now if one scrolls way down to the bottom of the page you will see at the bottom left hand corner “follow us on twitter.” Their twitter handle is 866OURVOTE, AKA Election Protection. And if one spells that out in numbers, it is the contact phone number at the top of the Election Protection page. 866OURVOTE’s web page is Election Protection and here is a quote:

If you experience problems at the polls on Election Day(such as long lines, voter intimidation, suspicious behavior, machine malfunctions, registration errors, etc.) you can report it to us via text message or the web by using your Twitter account! (Don’t have one? Click here to sign-up.)

Now if you look at a tweet they put out on Nov. 5, 2008, one day after the election: (screen shot in case they pull the account…):



The URL leads you to this web page and I’ll give you a screen shot and a quote. Highlighting is mine:



Washington, DC — Election Protection, the nation’s largest nonpartisan [emphasis mine] voter rights coalition, has fielded over 200,000 calls to its 1-866-OUR-VOTE hotline, including over 80,000 calls on Election Day alone. Questions and concerns from voters across the country – from the hotline, website and social networking sites like Twitter – were answered and acted upon by a network of over 10,000 trained volunteers across the country.

Nonpartisan? With members like ACLU, CREDO Mobile, SEIU, Color of Change, Center for Community Change? Come on guys, give me a break. For some reason this writer highly doubts with all these ultra-liberal progressive organizations involved in this massive GOTV effort their campaign slogan was “Vote McCain/Palin.”

Even though we all know Maddow, Olbermann and Matthews are full of drivel, it is still disturbing to this writer to find the names of NBC, MSNBC and YouTube as members of this “GOTV Coalition.”

Allegations of media bias have swirled around since before Obama was elected. Media outlets have been accused of ignoring stories and refusing to properly vet Obama and now with NBC, MSNBC and YouTube partners with OTHER leftist organizations to “protect elections” it’s easy to determine what side they are working for. Yes, this may have helped place a Man in the Oval Office in November of 2008.

FYI anyone interested in using CREDO Mobile they use Sprint service.
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Doug, people saying no are doing it because they don't like where the country is going. If you don't think the tide of public thought has changed, look at the presidential numbers I posted a few pages ago. These are recent. Judge for yourself.

I don't put much stock in surveys/news polls.....as I said, 2 more years before the next elections is a LONG time and opinions can change, for the positive or for the negative.

As for the survey numbers, though, I do know that when I was in the broadcast journalism field we were fully aware that there is a tendency for those who are dissatisfied to be much more likely to respond to a survey request than those who were satisfied. The results of almost every survey will be skewed to the negative, regardless of the source, b/c of the human tendency to remain silent as long as the person is satisfied. I've seen it time and time again.

As for the Republicans and their newfound status as the "...Party of NO!", I find this a reprehensible act in general. The members of congress are elected to represent the constituents in their respective areas of the country, not the party line. It is incomprehensible to me that EVERY bill brought forth by the Democratic party could fail to be of benefit to the constituents in the areas represented by the Republicans, but they are voting on EVERY bill as a "block".....they have lost sight of the reality of whom/what they were elected to represent.

And as for the economy, I find the Republicans to be poor proponents for the less advantaged...trickle down economics didn't work, unless you were a wealthy business owner who could (and did, mostly) retain the increased profits the Reagan policies created. The $$ didn't trickle down to where it was suppose to, it stayed at the "top".

The widening schism between the haves and the have-nots is what worries me.....how much can we oppress the poor before we have armed insurrection? I think that may be the reason Bee-OH won the last election, he gave some hope to those who had no hope.

We'll see how it works out, but I disagree with VEEK, I think this IS fun!

Cheers from Doug!!
 
Doug, you are right, the election is 2 years away. I don't see BHO changing any of his policies to accommodate bridge building with the republicans rather than one who is head strong and trying to get his way. So you will continue to find the republicans voting enblock.

I have heard the trickle down theory before and I don't disagree with what you say. When I was working in the states, we took pay increase deferrals and very small increases for years. I didn't think this was fair, but the company (very large US multi-national) was in the drivers seat. At days' end, I was actually well treated by them, much better than future employers (at the time).

As I stated elsewhere, I have no problems with people who start their own business doing very well. I do have some issues with CEOs of public companies, who don't generate shareholder value, getting paid huge amounts of money.

Now back to the thread.
 
Back to the thread:

I could have changed my mind had the Imam done the following:
- changed the location of the proposed mosque / cultural center
- denounced Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran's development of nuclear power
- stated that Isreal has the right to exist
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
The sad thing is, domtoni, that he could no more do that than could we Christians renounce Jesus Christ......it's a millenium old conflict, no amount of negotiation or political backroom dealings are going to get them to do that.

I fear we must find another way to prohibit the construction on G.Z. The news just yesterday was full of a story about a Muslim cab driver who was attacked (stabbed) by a fare, reportedly b/c of anger over the placement of the mosque.

I am the eternal optimist, and I have high hopes the Muslims will get the message, loud and clear....their mosque is not welcome in such a sensitive location. There is a huge groundswell of resistance in New York City and this does not bode well for the Muslims if they proceed at Ground Zero, regardless of how benign they say their intentions are.

It just ain't right :thumbsdown: !!

Cheers from Doug!
 
Thanks Doug for your comments. One thing I heard last night was the unions will not build the mosque. If they don't play ball, it ain't going to happen.

The cab driver stabbing was sad.

Now I see where Chicago is having its own mosque issue, and the proposed plan is not so far from a Jewish neighborhood just off Western and Pratt Avenues. I am in Chicago for the next couple of weeks, so I will probably be filled with all sorts of stuff. And as someone may say, BS !!
 

Doug S.

The protoplasm may be 72, but the spirit is 32!
Lifetime Supporter
Here is another article with some thoughtful insight.

Dangerous game in Islamic center debate - CNN.com

Ian

I agree wholeheartedly with this quote from the article, Ian:

"This is our country....They have opinions, that's fine. But don't hate Islam. Those who did wrong, they should be punished. But the same thing is true for the group in the White House that killed 1.5 million Iraqis. They should be punished."
"Are you comparing President Bush to terrorists?," I asked.
"Oh, absolutely," he said. "Look at what happened in Abu Ghraib. You think Muslims are going to forget that?"

I have long maintained that Gee-DUB ought to be tried as a war criminal for his unjustified invasion of Iraq and if convicted should be interred at Gitmo with those he imprisoned and denied access to due process.

That, too, is not the stuff on which America was founded, but our POTUS at the time didn't care......he just forged headstrong into a country's civil war in an effort to vindicate his father for his failure to dethrone Sadaam Hussein.

Shame on him, I say!!

Flame suit on!

Cheers from Doug!
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
Ok Guys,
Just sent my email off to the NY Dept of Transportation,
seems they regulate street vendors.
Does anyone know a fabrication shop that can build my moveable stall
and while we are on the subject, anyone know a wholesaler of pork products in the area ?
I need a poll guys, what do you eat with bacon sandwiches ?
Is it Heinz Ketchup, Mustard, Mayo, or what ?
I reckon on a sandwich costing $ 2.00 to $ 2.50, with 50 % of profits going
to a Veteran's charity.
Anyone want to join me on manning the stall ?
Sorry, i can't offer you wages, but can offer a fun time and free sandwiches
and maybe 24 virgins !
I understand this orifice, sorry edifice, will be built in about 18 months time,
but i can set aside 3 months of my life.
Just imagine the press coverage it would attract !!
Who is up for it ?
 
Ok Guys,
Just sent my email off to the NY Dept of Transportation,
seems they regulate street vendors.
Does anyone know a fabrication shop that can build my moveable stall
and while we are on the subject, anyone know a wholesaler of pork products in the area ?
I need a poll guys, what do you eat with bacon sandwiches ?
Is it Heinz Ketchup, Mustard, Mayo, or what ?
I reckon on a sandwich costing $ 2.00 to $ 2.50, with 50 % of profits going
to a Veteran's charity.
Anyone want to join me on manning the stall ?
Sorry, i can't offer you wages, but can offer a fun time and free sandwiches
and maybe 24 virgins !
I understand this orifice, sorry edifice, will be built in about 18 months time,
but i can set aside 3 months of my life.
Just imagine the press coverage it would attract !!
Who is up for it ?

BLTs with mayo.

Or, why not offer up some great sausages. Or, if you want to piss 'em off even more, don't bother with the pork and sell Hebrew National Hot Dogs.

I'd ditch the idea of wearing a burkha - someone might stab you.

Ian
 

Charlie Farley

Supporter
I'll take your idea about ditching the Burkha uniform and instead,
contact my pork wholesaler and pick up from him and ' ditch '
their offcuts, i.e. feet, eyes, foreskins, udders etc, into the
building's foundation trenches, each night, no ?
Concrete and pork cast off's, that should get the provenance of the building
off to a good start. We could even take photos and present them with an album, AFTER, they have spent their $ Millions.
Jesus, why do you you put these ideas into my head ?
 
All I can say is I told you so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey Andy I would def. make a trip to help man the cart and might be able to get some girls on board to (only during the day because they work the night shift).
 
If Obama did support the building of a Mosque near ground zero, perhaps he was right to do so. If it is not built due to the threat of possible violence would that not prove terrorism had succeeded on both sides of the divide.

The United States Department of Defense defines terrorism as “the calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.” Within this definition, there are three key elements—violence, fear, and intimidation—and each element produces terror in its victims. The FBI uses this: "Terrorism is the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives." The U.S. Department of State defines "terrorism" to be "premeditated politically-motivated violence perpetrated against non-combatant targets by sub-national groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.

Outside the United States Government, there are greater variations in what features of terrorism are emphasized in definitions. The United Nations produced this definition in 1992; "An anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby - in contrast to assassination - the direct targets of violence are not the main targets." The most commonly accepted academic definition starts with the U.N. definition quoted above, and adds two sentences totaling another 77 words on the end; containing such verbose concepts as "message generators" and 'violence based communication processes." Less specific and considerably less verbose, the British Government definition of 1974 is"…the use of violence for political ends, and includes any use of violence for the purpose of putting the public, or any section of the public, in fear."

Terrorism is a criminal act that influences an audience beyond the immediate victim. The strategy of terrorists is to commit acts of violence that draws the attention of the local populace, the government, and the world to their cause. The terrorists plan their attack to obtain the greatest publicity, choosing targets that symbolize what they oppose. The effectiveness of the terrorist act lies not in the act itself, but in the public’s or government’s reaction to the act. For example, in 1972 at the Munich Olympics, the Black September Organization killed 11 Israelis. The Israelis were the immediate victims. But the true target was the estimated 1 billion people watching the televised event.

The Black September Organization used the high visibility of the Olympics to publicize its views on the plight of the Palestinian refugees. Similarly, in October 1983, Middle Eastern terrorists bombed the Marine Battalion Landing Team Headquarters at Beirut International Airport. Their immediate victims were the 241 U.S. military personnel who were killed and over 100 others who were wounded. Their true target was the American people and the U.S. Congress. Their one act of violence influenced the United States’ decision to withdraw the Marines from Beirut and was therefore considered a terrorist success.

There are three perspectives of terrorism: the terrorist’s, the victim’s, and the general public’s. The phrase “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is a view terrorists themselves would accept. Terrorists do not see themselves as evil. They believe they are legitimate combatants, fighting for what they believe in, by whatever means possible. A victim of a terrorist act sees the terrorist as a criminal with no regard for human life. The general public’s view is the most unstable. The terrorists take great pains to foster a “Robin Hood” image in hope of swaying the general public’s point of view toward their cause. This sympathetic view of terrorism has become an integral part of their psychological warfare and needs to be countered vigorously
 
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