Beretta extreme

[Pete McCluskey.]

I know a lot of you enjoy shooting and thought you would like this clip.
The guy can shoot a bit.

XTREMA 2 SHOTGUN DEMO#

 

[Sid]

Awesome skills.

That Beretta semi-auto system really does seem to greatly reduce the recoil. It looks to kick far less than the last semi I had, which was a Benelli M1 Super 90 - and they are reckoned to be pretty good.

 

[David Sturch]

Pete,
I was at a private range in Sept. My buddies son was taking a Tactical Course. Pistol, Assault and Shotgun. Two guys had the Berettas. Placed the all shots within an inch of each other on the target in a rapid fire session. I was quite impressed. His son was using a Remminton 12 guage Tactical Pump, no where as accurate and slow. It costs only a quarter of the price of a Beretta though.
Dave

 

[Sid]

I have to say that if I was betting my life on a shotgun it would be a Remington 870 pump action.

Mine started out life with the Royal Marines and came with a breaching attachment on the end ( for opening doors without knocking ) slug barrel with rifle sights, a Choate pistol grip stock and an extended mag tube. I 'civilianised' it just a little with a new barrel and eventually sold it.
Then I bought it back.
Then I sold it again.
Finally I bought it back for the last time.

It's now almost completely 'demilitarised' except for the Choate stock. I like pistol grips on shotguns.

 

[David Sturch]

Sid,
His was on older 870 tack 2 I think. Mag extension Picaninny rail on top with some sort of quick point. Folding stock and a aftermarket bolt on light in the front. The Beretta far nicer shotgun and about $2400.00CDN here.
Dave

 

[domtoni]

Great video. Shotguns are pretty interesting weapons. They are all pretty accurate, after all, you have a piece of pipe, with an opening that can vary from narrow to wide, and make sure it is reliable.

I have shot the Beretta Technis, high end finish etc of the semi-auto range by Beretta, and it is a low kick device.

I have two old bang and clang Browning Auto 5s, one 12 and the second a 20 gauge. They have higher recoil and are not as fast but they do handle well.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

I've got a Remington 870 12 gauge that's the tactical police model. No pistol grips or anything, but it is composite stock, 18.5" bbl, and holds 7 rnds of 2 3/4". It's not as fast as a semi-auto, but if anyone hears the tell tale "Sha-Chink" of the slide action working, they know what's up. As for a Semi-Auto Shotgun, I'll have to go with a good ol' Saiga 12. Think of it as an AK47 in 12 gauge rather than 7.62x39.

 

[Sid]

A friend of mine imports Saiga's - I've had a 7.62X39 which I turned into a replica of the old school AK with the wood furniture and an AK104 ( I think it was a 104 - one of the 100 series anyway ) chambered in 5.56 NATO. I converted that into a Galil look alike which accepted M16 mags instead of the Saiga plastic 10 rounders. Didn't feed all that well, but our Saiga rifles are single shot, so the conversion was mainly to make it look cool.

Never owned a Saiga-12 though. UK gun laws require semi auto shotguns to have 24 inch barrels so the versions we get are very long and unwieldy. Apparently the .410 handles a lot better because even though the barrel length is the same the tube is much lighter.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

A friend of mine imports Saiga's - I've had a 7.62X39 which I turned into a replica of the old school AK with the wood furniture and an AK104 ( I think it was a 104 - one of the 100 series anyway ) chambered in 5.56 NATO. I converted that into a Galil look alike which accepted M16 mags instead of the Saiga plastic 10 rounders. Didn't feed all that well, but our Saiga rifles are single shot, so the conversion was mainly to make it look cool.

Never owned a Saiga-12 though. UK gun laws require semi auto shotguns to have 24 inch barrels so the versions we get are very long and unwieldy. Apparently the .410 handles a lot better because even though the barrel length is the same the tube is much lighter.

I guess we are lucky here in the US, our shotgun bbl's only have to be 18" long. You can get shorter ones, but you need a tax stamp and local law enforcement to sign off on some paperwork. Same for silencers and full auto weapons. Hehehe. I want to get a full auto trigger group for my G3, but on top of the price of the trigger group, the tax stamp is $250. LOL

The .308 (7.62x51 NATO) kicks so hard in that rifle, I'm sure I'd hate the full auto after about 20 mags. LOL Yes, I said 20 mags, not rounds.

 

[Sid]

I've actually got a full auto trigger group for a G3 somewhere - a few years ago I considered trying to make a version of the G3 which would be UK legal and bought a deactivated rifle so that I could familiarise myself with the mechanism. It turned out that it would be possible, but too easy to convert back into a select fire, so I didn't continue with the project.

The deactivation standard doesn't require the trigger group to be removed or damaged in any way so everything is still there....I've got a feeling you'd need a bolt carrier too though.

It would be an absolute legal nightmare for me to send it to you though, which is a shame because it's got very little value here, if any. While it's not a restricted item to own under UK law ( and even if it was I've got the UK equivalent of the US FFL, so I'd be covered that way ) trying to export it would give our Customs and Excise and Home Office a conniption fit

The shotgun barrel length rule is stupidity of course - if anyone wanted to cut the barrel down then they could. You may as well ban hacksaws.
We do however get to own short barrelled rifles ( 12" minimum ) with no extra paperwork over and above the weapon itself and suppressors are legal.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Oh man, I wished I could get that from you. LOL Just 2 pins to swap it out and you're done. The only thing easier to field strip is my Baby Eagle. LOL

 

[David Sturch]

Sid & Brian,
Here is a nice site that has every shotgun from around the world.
Dave

Modern Firearms - Shotguns - Intro

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Atomic

I have that site bookmarked. LOL

 

[Sid]

Just 2 pins to swap it out and you're done. The only thing easier to field strip is my Baby Eagle. LOL

Ain't quite that simple

I'm going to phrase this really carefully, because my gun nut friends in the US tell me that simply discussing select fire conversions in detail can bring unpleasant attention from the BATF - even if the discussion is only on technical issues and doesn't involve any intention of law breaking. I don't want to get anyone into trouble.

So with that in mind, speaking in general terms, I'm pretty sure of a couple of things.

1) There will be a modification to the receiver of your G3 which would have to be removed before the select fire trigger group would physically fit.

2) The bolt carrier will also have been modified to remove a feature which interacts with a part of the trigger group to make select fire possible. You would need a new bolt carrier, or the original one modifying back to select fire spec. That would have to be done really carefully, because if not then it could potentially allow the weapon to fire before the bolt had locked up, which would probably destroy the rifle and cause serious injury to the shooter.

3) If your barrel doesn't have a fluted chamber then the weapon won't like firing full auto, and you'll likely experience case separations. The G3 delayed blowback design unlocks the bolt while there is still quite a high pressure inside the case compared to other actions. HK's workaround for this was to put fluting in the chamber, sort of like a spline on a driveshaft but in reverse. It equalises the gas pressure by bleeding some back around the outside of the case and reduces the surface area that the brass is sticking to. It'll be really obvious if your chamber is fluted because your spent cases will show the markings. The G3 sniper variants manage fine without a fluted chamber, so it's obviously just a full auto thing.

One thing I might be able to help you with is an optics mount. The old NATO standard was called the STANAG rail and there is a claw mount which attaches to the G3 receiver. They fetch crazy money here ( collectors items ) but it wouldn't be hard to make one that incorporated a Picatinny rail.

I feel kind of bad about not wanting to send you the select fire trigger group, because I'm sure it's possible ( at least under UK export law, don't know about your import regulations ) but I'd have to get involved with government agencies who I am not currently concerned with, and to be quite honest I'm really glad I'm not on their radar. Every year I get a 7 page questionaire from one of them asking about what weapons I import and export and it's great just to be able to say " I don't do that - go bug someone else "

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Haha!

Yes, I know what you're talking about.

My G3 does have fluting in the bbl. I think it'd be cool to have a full auto trigger group, but as you stated, there is definitely going to need a little gunsmithing work to make it all go together well.

Here's my toys...

 

[Chris P.]

YouTube - AA-12. World's deadliest shotgun!

 

[domtoni]

I'd love to try one of those AA 12s at my local clay shooting ground !!!