best engine purchase choice?

[Eric]

i've since recovered from the prospect of using an american engine in my custom design. in the end, the only one i would ever put in without feeling guilty was the dohc ford modular motor, but that would be even more expensive to take care of than the original audi v8 idea i had in mind.

another appealing audi engine has popped up, this time an abh engine rather than an abz, but i'm unsure of the best way to approach getting an engine. what's the better investment in the end anyway? getting this engine with no accessories, no computer, no starter, and missing who knows what else and use it for mock up before searching for bits to get it to run? or perhaps shelling out enough money to buy a complete car from which i can pull any bits i need?

either way i look at it, the final setup will need a custom ecu since i'm looking to bolt on a very large borg warner variable geometry turbo, and i don't think any audi v8 ecu is set up to deal with that.:devilish: otherwise, i dunno whether a cheap engine now would lead to me pulling out all my hair in the long run.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Is there something wrong with using an American V8? I've driven, rebuilt, tweaked and tuned, broken and repaired a lot of european engines including ferrari, alfa, porsche, maserati, fiat, etc. and the basic American push rod V8 is a heck of an engine. Yes, it's not as sophisticated as a 4 cam audi or mercedes or ferrari engine but that's a good thing in many ways - less to go wrong and break! And, it takes a lot of tuning and tweaking to make up for smaller the dispalcement in most european engines.

 

[Ron Earp]

I think he mentioned an engine choice on another thread Cliff and I said the same thing....

What is an abh or abz?

 

[Bram Boekestein]

abh and abz are audi engine codes

Audi 4.2 (bi-turbo) 32 or 40V are good engines, realiable german engineering and lots of stock horsepower 350 for an NA 32V but biturbo are availiable upto to 550hp from the factory.

I would love to get one for my project if money permitts

Here they proboarly will be cheaper than a american v8, on ebay audi v8 from 2500 pounds incl. ecu, wiring etc.

 

[Lucas van Altena]

Just like Bram said, Audi.
That's mine next engine in my GTD.
No more Ford, 10.000 mls than i have rebuild the Ford!
Hermes GT40 use a Audi engine and is as fast as hell, with good software for the engine for a small price.

 

[Eric]

i hear the same arguments coming again against the audi engine: it's more expensive. well, perhaps, but i'd really prefer it. one of the main goals of my car is to be able to stuff my 6' 9" brother in the passenger seat. with the ridiculously short audi engine in place (there's little space between the engine and the firewall in my model), there's just enough room for him to maybe fit. most american engines i've seen are ludicrously long. on top of all that, the audi engine wouldn't need any adapter plate at all to bolt to an audi gearbox, which is what i plan to use instead of a porsche g50 for example.

i also really prefer the dual overhead cam setup. don't ask me why. i just do. and power as bram said. it'll be some turbo setup, whether or not i use the borg warner (just found out it would need a different turbine housing in order not to burn up), so there will be a ton of power.

i should probably take a look at a local junkyard and see what sort of shape the audis there are in before doing anything, because it would be nice to have an entire parts bin to myself. the issue is i have no garage space for a car anyway, thus the appeal of just the engine. hmm...

 

[glen]

go for it!! when you've ironed out all the problems, it'll be easier for the rest of us!!!:idea:

 

[Eric]

oh thanks.:tongue3:

i am thinking though that even though the abh engine is an older design, the one i've found only has 6000 miles more than my saab does (yikes), and the distributor ignition is probably much easier to design a custom ecu for. no issues of expensive coils like the insanely expensive saab dic either.:thumbsup:

 

[WEGENER Engineering]

Please do not take this as a smartass remark but from your post I gather that you do not have a garage and a handicapped brother to drive around.
May I suggest a motorcycle. You two can build a beautiful rocketship in the cozyness of any apartment. Many of us have done that and it will provide untold hours bonding and learning about mechanical things.

If you want to go ahead with the Audi V8 please make sure that the V8 block actually has the same bellhousing pattern as the audi transaxle of your choice. The trip to the junkyard will most likely reveal a lot more questions than answers.
Please keep us posted.
Mike

 

[Eric]

comments regarded. my explanations: i'm younger than you think, and my brother wants to buy one (assuming he can afford it). i fully intend to have him in the passenger seat of the prototype and get him to wet his pants.

i should probably talk to hilly about the audi block and gearboxes. from what i recall, he had to drill and tap a few extra holes in the block to bolt up the transaxle, but it was otherwise a perfect fit. in his case, it was an 01x, which i'm sure has the same mounting face as the 01e and i think as the 3u box.

 

[Doug Clark]

Why not one of these? Look here for what they can run. Which I don't think is un-typical for a turbo set up.

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[Eric]

i'm concerned we're getting off my original topic here. the question is not whether or not to use an audi engine. i know i will in the end. the question is whether i'd be better off getting the cheap engine that may be missing certain parts, or shell out the money for an entire car that needs to be put out of its misery. i'm supposing with the actual mock-up stage looming (the chassis model needs a few tweaks to get the suspension geometry right), having even just a useless audi block would be helpful.

 

[Scott]

I'd opt for the entire car, as you can sell parts to recover the cost you've paid, and your nearly guaranteed to have everything you need.

If choosing between the ABH and ABZ, go for the ABZ, although based on the same engine design, the ABZ has a variable intake that flows better and is rated at more HP than the ABH.

If you can get your hands on an A8, you can sell the trans for 800, and then scrap the aluminium body for 800-900 and with that you've likely paid for the car and then some.

Keep in mind the aluminium V8 engines are considered disposable by Audi, no internal parts are available from Audi (I've been able to source everything at a pretty high cost compared to internals for an american V8).

I'm building a turbo 40V 4.2 for a customer and the final bill in parts alone is upwards of 7,000 bucks. This is for pistons/rods/valves/bearings etc.

The bores are alu-sil and you'll need a machine shop that can bore/hone an aluminium bore if you decide to build it.

Another good point is you can bolt up an Audi 6 speed which is more than capable to handle the power the engine will produce.

i'm concerned we're getting off my original topic here. the question is not whether or not to use an audi engine. i know i will in the end. the question is whether i'd be better off getting the cheap engine that may be missing certain parts, or shell out the money for an entire car that needs to be put out of its misery. i'm supposing with the actual mock-up stage looming (the chassis model needs a few tweaks to get the suspension geometry right), having even just a useless audi block would be helpful.

 

[Eric]

thank you for reminding me of that detail!

i forgot i could sell off extra parts i don't need, and there will be plenty of them. it may take some searching for a wrecked car. the only one i've found locally is up for 4 grand..... almost as much as i paid for my saab with full service history.:shout: getting the entire car relieves me of the concern of having to figure out megasquirt, vems, or whatever other ecu and just use the stock one until i work up the nerve to buy some turbos and fab up manifolds. time for some research.

 

[Ron Earp]

Might be an Audi forum would be some help here. Welcome to AudiWorld.com - The Audi Enthusiast Website might be a good place to start.

 

[Eric]

might've found an audi that looks good, but it's the 40v v8, and the reserve on the auction isn't yet met. i suppose we'll see how it pans out over the next week of the auction.

 

[Tim]

As Scott says, Defiantly go for a complete car. Or a second choice as we in New Zealand call it a Half or front cut. Getting all the parts you may want in one go is the best thing to do. Buying from wreckers always ends up costing more and are not always compatible. and you can sell what you do not want.

 

[Eric]

i've been looking into that too. the auction just went beyond what i'd care to pay (and still without the reserve met), so it's back to searching for one with the abz engine. the tough thing is there are few wreckers in my area, and even fewer that sell foreign car parts.

 

[Al Jones]

The salvage yards have a line they use to search for parts.Ask your local guy to try and find what you need.If out of state you'll pay shipping.