Braided Hoses Throughout!!

#1
Hi all
Just a thought, some builds I have seen on the web seem to use braided hoses throughout no copper (or cunifer). I may just only be seeing images of those sections but has anyone done a full braided install?
Apart from the seemingly deep pockets needed!! are there any benefits either way to have full braided setup versus stiff and flexi?
Just one to mull over, seems from and initial Google search its an easier fit but costs mucho denero although some say the pedal has more sponge
Cheers
 
#3
Shaun;

Perish the thought of using copper brake or clutch lines, copper is susceptible to fatigue from the many pressure cycles that it sees in those applications and will crack and leak.

"Braided hose" is a phrase that can cover many types of hose. Flexible brake lines are usually -3AN Teflon-lined hose with a braided stainless steel outer cover. This is good stuff but similar-looking braided hose can also have a rubber liner and that is not suitable for brake or clutch lines. The rubber is not compatible with brake fluid or with high pressure. It works OK for fuel or oil lines.

Most race cars these days use Goodridge, I-Core, or XRP poly braided light weight line with crimped-on fittings. I like the I-Core hose for its Teflon liner, tight bend radius, and flexibility. Most applications, though, use hard line (steel or 5052 aluminum) wherever flexibility is not required.
 
#4
Hi Neil
Top advice as always, my misleading mentioning copper, I did mean the copper 'look' as but as a Cunifer pipe. I suppose its a question of going to a good supplier and checking any used are Teflon, similar I guess to fuel hoses some of which it seems these days are plain tat and not fir for purpose.
All food for thought, learn a lot building a GT40 that's for sure
Cheers
 
#7
Hi Shaun

Kunifer is cheaper and gives a good, hard pedal. Even best quality Goodridge will flex slightly if used for the entire system, giving a slightly spongy pedal. It'll also cost a packet! Maybe in a small Formula car (eg. FFord) an entire braided system might be OK, and simplify off-season maintenance.

My guess is that Keith Baker's setup included a residual brake pressure valve to keep a couple of PSI in the brake system to reduce pad knock-back. Maybe he was running floating discs, which can exaggerate this effect? The alternative to a residual pressure valve is to master the technique of a slight tap on the brake pedal on the straight before a heavy braking zone, to make sure that the pads are close to the discs; check out Dickie Meaden at Spa here:-
at about 0:49 (and on subsequent occasions) you can see the "tap".

Cheers,

Eddy
 
#8
Solid it is, well solid where it needs to be, thanks Eddy for the valve thought, not seem one of those, great video, have seen that before but ages ago, the wiper down the straight must be 6" off the glass, mind you rain would not stay at 140mph, its about as much use as a chocolate teapot
Going to bookmark that chap for sure
Got to get a move on now my body has arrived!!!
Cheers all
 

Nick

Member
GT40s Supporter
#9
Hi Shaun, I have braided hoses for brakes and clutch throughout apart from the cross connection at the rear. Cannot comment on the brake feeling as I haven't driven the car much, but it is really only for road use and I am no driver so I doubt if I will notice. Cost wise the 2 main long runs from front to back for clutch and brake lines were, stainless steel fittings, stainless steel braided teflon hose £170, around £100 for 3 brake and clutch lines from reservoirs to bulkhead connectors. these came from a small company in the West Country Exact Engineering Hose and Fittings Totnes. The flexible hoses from brake calipers to chassis connectors came from the brake caliper manufacturers hi spec they were £80 for front and back but that was back in 2011.

So about £170 for the long runs (possibly a bit less if I didn't always over measure) that would have been Cunifer , expensive but not a great deal in the grand scheme of things when the car is probably going to come in at around £50k when finally finished.
 
#10
Hi Nick, thanks for your input, mine will be much like yours, I am no race driver, too tall and big for that :) so it will be road use and maybe a few track days just to see, not at all like the Spa video from Eddy. Cost I had done some rough ideas and as you say in the scheme of things its not huge, as with a lot of projects, if you know what it would cost you would never start, knew that when I built our house and always tell people we build houses for the same, do you (or anyone) have any images of where and how you routed your pipes? One worry of mine is I will route in a location that is later used
Cheers
 
#11
Dang, I just finished replacing the hard lines with all new nickel/copper hard lines with bubble flare. Didn’t occur to me that flexible braided could be used instead.

It took some serious time to re-do all the hard lines!
 
#12
Shaun have a chat with Muck, pretty sure he’s either tried this or had a car in like this and it did not work, ended up with a spongey peddle I think.
 
#13
Cheers Paul, just messaged you re the routing of said pipework, also got some images from Keith's build which are super hi res so good for zooming, mind you on the poxy tablet I have up the workshop its bad for the old peep holes, time for a bigger screen!!
 
#14
Hi Shaun,I did use -3 stainless hose for the brake lines and -4 for the clutch line
All stainless fittings ,all from demon tweeks
Regards Keith
 
#15
Hi Keith
I have ended up doing mine in solid and short flex but would be curious to know if your pedal feel and travel is the same as solid? Seems the consensus here was it could be a bit spongy but they don':)t half look the part
Mind you I am on hold as my nice new Teng Tools flaring kit snapped the die off, changed free of charge as they have a lifetime guarantee but still a pain, had to fir my heater box instead over the weekend
Cheers
 
#16
Hi Shaun,
I used the solid brake and clutch lines that came with my SLC kit. My Ultima GTR has all flex lines. These cars are similar so a good comparison.
Brakes and clutch on each have a solid feel, very much the same.
Good Luck, Jerry
 
#17
My first build in 1992 used 100% stainless braided (Teflon?) non-rubber lined flexible brake and clutch lines. I sought the advice of a WRC car builder. The clutch line, with it's larger diameter to cope with the extra fluid transfer, has worked very well. The brake lines though were plagued with sponginess from day 1, even with using narrow-bore lines. On the 2004 rebuild, I used solid brake lines wherever possible and pedal hardness was achieved immediately, even with the new bigger calipers and long 6.25-1 pedal. So there's my vote, keep flexible line short.
Tony.
 

Nick

Member
GT40s Supporter
#19
My first build in 1992 used 100% stainless braided (Teflon?) non-rubber lined flexible brake and clutch lines. I sought the advice of a WRC car builder. The clutch line, with it's larger diameter to cope with the extra fluid transfer, has worked very well. The brake lines though were plagued with sponginess from day 1, even with using narrow-bore lines. On the 2004 rebuild, I used solid brake lines wherever possible and pedal hardness was achieved immediately, even with the new bigger calipers and long 6.25-1 pedal. So there's my vote, keep flexible line short.
Tony.
Hi Tony,

Did the WRC car builder advise you initially to fit braided, or solid after you sought his advice on the sponginess.

Thanks

Nick
 
#20
Hi Guys ........ it's probably worth mentioning for those in the UK, that if you use braided hoses on a new build then make sure you have appropriate paperwork for the hoses as the IVA inspector may ask to see proof that hoses are 'fit for purpose' i.e. you have supporting documentation that the hoses were designed for the use to which you have put them.
 
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