Burning Volts.

Veek

Pat

Supporter
Personally, I think the near term future is a turbo-diesel solution and longer term fuel cells.
In 2007 the Department of Energy published initial results of a study that looks somewhat promising. It initially concluded efficiency increases from 35% up to 48% by conversion of a car diesel to zero-emissions turbodiesel with membrane oxygen reactor. For those of you that are engineering wonks here is the study I'm referencing. http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/07/carbon-seq/data/papers/p1_063.pdf

I've never really unbderstood why turbo-diesels haven't caught on in the US as they have in Europe and elsewhere.

As for LiPo batteries, I use them in my RC Helicopter hobby and they do require some very gentile care, especially when charging. They will combust and they don't age well.
Watch what happens when you overcharge one.
LiPo-burning - YouTube

But then, I suspect your Prius is not the most dangerous thing in your home compared to the gas hot water heater or heating system. Of course they all pale in comparison to the danger posed by an angry spouse...
Angry Wife Humilates Husband - YouTube
 
I

Ian K

Turbo diesels suffer from the historical impression that they are extremely dirty. VW has done a great job promoting their TDI line, especially in their head to head with hybrid ads (TDI Jetta vs. Prius). The nearly 50 mpg numbers in addition to real world highway tests getting 60 - 70 mpg, new life may get breathed into turbo diesels as an option. Even with diesel commanding a higher price than premium unleaded.

Fuel cells is another nice topic. Work has been really slow as of late, but they are still making progress. The California Fuel Cell Partnership counts Daimler, Chrysler, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota and VW as members, as well as Chevron. They also have ties with a number of California transit systems who have fuel cell powered buses running.

Ian
 
J

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Actually, diesels in the US died early on because of two things. The first generation of European diesels to come here were woefully underpowered. The first generation of American diesels in cars were either conversions of American V8s and horribly unreliable, or imported woefully underpowered motors.

In short, diesels in passenger cars in the US died because the product was bad. Not because of any regulatory issues as Bob suggests.

Diesels are making a comeback now. Why? Because they are quiet, reliable, powerful (with a turbo) and fuel efficient. VW is killing it with the TDi. Audi and Mercedes the same. Chevy is introducing a diesel Cruze next year.

Disclaimer: I have an A3 TDi and love it. I think 50 mpg is doable and but hard, and the tales of 60-70 mpg are a bit fanciful but that said the car is quieter at idle and under throttle than my old M5, feels very spry around town and gets an honest 45 mpg on the highway.

I didn't tell my mother it was a diesel for weeks and she loved the car. She'd buy one -- and if she would, any American would.

The VW/Audi TDi is a game changer.
 
L

Bob Fechter

blueovalz said:
...and make too much noise (and the owners seem to relish the long-term idle).
Click to expand...

I beg to differ, too much of the wrong kind of noise!

Also, I think that the long idles are inspired by those family vacations where they pulled over in a truck stop and all those big trucks were constantly idling. As proof, I submit the owner of a VW diesel calling it his "rig!"

LOL
 
J

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
I've got a 5.9 Cummins in the Ram 3/4 ton and it is a LOUD sucker. Cab is insulated enough so it is not an issue, but outside? Yeah, it's loud.

The A3 TDi is quieter at idle than my E39 M5 was.
 
F

Frank3

WOW !
too much to tackle in the short time I have before going to work , but I have to say ...
LI batteries are very finicky , too high or too low in charge , and they get hot / unstable and catch fire . In the radio control world , we charge them in fire proof bags .
One of my friends Blazer burned to the ground when his r/c cars battery became unstable while being charged in the back of his Blazer, caught fire . We don't allow charging in vehicles at meets any more .

Electric cars as COAL driven ? OK , then NUKE driven , or what ever is supplying electricity to charge it .

I LOVE my Jetta TDI , and laugh at Prius owners who believe they are better . maybe they are , just not IMO .
I also love my Dura Max , And I love the sound of devise working correctly .
And i love diesel smell , CAM2 , or racing fuel . But not so much gas w/ catalytic converters .

I do believe electric will out shadow carbon based fuels when ...
storage compactly is more practical ,
And solar panels , or other generative sources become viable . Which we are moving closer to daily .
 
Charlie Farley

Charlie Farley

Supporter
I've had Audi TDI's now for nearly 10 years. Responsive enough for UK traffic limitations, rock steady 52 mpg, how ever i drive and reliable isn't the word.
In 470,000 miles, on two cars, i've had a broken alternator pulley,,,,, thats it!
My next car will be another Audi A4 avant.
 
S

Darnel A.

Supporter
LI batteries are very finicky , too high or too low in charge , and they get hot / unstable and catch fire . In the radio control world , we charge them in fire proof bags .
One of my friends Blazer burned to the ground when his r/c cars battery became unstable while being charged in the back of his Blazer, caught fire . We don't allow charging in vehicles at meets any more .

The Volt's Battery Pack has it's own cooling unit built in, as the Pack is charged, the Pack temperature is monitored and the Pack is watercooled. It's a little bit more sophiticated than an R/C Car.

And solar panels , or other generative sources become viable . Which we are moving closer to daily.

I agree. Eventually, the price of Solar panels will come down, and the energy density will improve to the point where the Panels on your house or garage or the backyard Solar Field in conjunction with a small wind turbine will generate enough electricity to sell back to the Power company and offset the electricity to charge your car at night. Your car will be a small electric commuter, and your weekend car would be a GT40!

Darnel
 
T

Damian

This in theory "I agree. Eventually, the price of Solar panels will come down, and the energy density will improve to the point where the Panels on your house or garage or the backyard Solar Field in conjunction with a small wind turbine will generate enough electricity to sell back to the Power company and offset the electricity to charge your car at night. Your car will be a small electric commuter, and your weekend car would be a GT40!" already exists. It's actually how almost every solar set up down here works. The burn is that by the time you make your money back it's going to be 10 + years and by then you are pushing the life cycle of the solar panels (average 10-15 yrs). Go big and yes you can make $. I know of a few solar farms that do just that.
 
L

Bob Fechter

I have a friend who's pretty high up on the Edison food chain. He tells me that most of the Chinese units are failing in a couple of years. The parts are inferior, and they've even caught them using used diodes. You then compound this with "installers" that get the polarity wrong and you have the perfect remedy for failure.

In California, the PUC is telling Edison that they can't use citrus based cleaners because they are a solvent and release too many "solvents into the air. When they asked PUC what they could use, they were told, "You better try water."
 
J

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
Most? That's incorrect. There have been some failures and the Chinese can be difficult to force to honor a warranty.

If you hire an installer who knows what he is doing -- any of the large EPCs or speciliastis -- you'll get a good install and a very protective availability guarantee. If you fartz around and hire Joe's Electrical Shop you'll get crap.

The problem with solar is low output per dollar, not anything basically wrong with the tech or the workmanship.
 
L

Bob Fechter

My friend sees a lot of this. The way they are pushing the sales of these things means they have big companies needing extra workers, and that's where you get smoke.

The failure rate is very high, and its Chinese. Faulty, cheap and or used, diodes are a very common problem with these arrays. One excuse you could use for Solyndra's failure if you wanted.
 
J

Jeff Young

GT40s Supporter
I did some checking. Best info I could find was for Suntech and their reported failure rate with utilities was less than 2%.

Suntech is Chinese.

The Chineses will cut corners and you do have to be careful because it can be hard to enforce a warranty against them. But let's not misconstrue the issue with solar. It's not quality of workmanship for the most part.

The problem still is that the per kilowatt hour cost from solar is higher than any other power source right (by the way, hydro is the cheapest, nuke next, and wind is right there with coal, while LNG is much higher).
 
L

Bob Fechter

Second Burning Volt.

Someone argued that the Feds didn't follow proper procedures which caused the fire. Well, first of all, if a federal agency which does nothing but crash cars was negligent how can we trust that big bad world to do it properly when we are told we always need more and more regulation from federal agencies?

But even more telling is its happened again, with another one sparking and smoldering.


2nd electric car battery fire involving Chevy Volt | SignOnSanDiego.com
 
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