Ceramic carbon brakes

[Rob]

Some Ford GT guys are running the ZR1 CC.

 

[Mike]

Hmmm....can you imagine the knowledge/skill you could gain from $8000 worth of driver coaching?

Ditto - $8k of professional in-car instruction would more than likely beat $8k of go fast parts.

 

[Kyle]

The problem with cc is that although they may last twice the life of steel, but if you track your car often they wont last for shit and then you're spending 8k to replace your rotors. They don't deliver more stopping power than steel, just less fade and the reduction in rotational mass makes a huge difference. If you are going to track your car often then you should stay away from them unless you have deep pockets. Also keep in mind most chemicals will make the rotor fall apart... Chevy advises not to use wheel cleaner because it can drip onto the rotors and they will start to fall apart. And they scratch and chip super easy. Most tire shops aren't even allowed to take the wheels off if you have CC brakes, and the ones that do have to have special guards so they dont chip the rotors. Just my .02

 

[Tim Kay]

^what Kyle says :thumbsup:

 

[marc]

Speed cost money, how fast do you want to go! And in road racing braking is just as important as accelerating. It maybe that I don't need them and they are to be handled carefully, but racing is about getting the best tools for the job, because the job is winning. If you can run 2 to 4 sec a lap better because of those brakes, as they are used on the LMPs, F1 and every expensive car out there. As for the comments about guys pulling them for std brakes, I believe they are just being cheap. and in racing that means slow. Yes they are not for everyone, as they add 10 k or so to the cost of racing, but are you there to just enjoy the ride or make mincemeat of your competition. I solo against EVOs with their light weight, turbos, and 4 wheel drive, but I can drive and have experience to keep up with my stuff. Like I said the car (lambo aventador) accelerated slower than it braked. Maybe they are not for you.

To me the advancement is like comparing drum brakes to discs when they first came out. Jaguar ate Ferrari's lunch because Enzo did not believe the brakes were making the difference back in the day.

If you are building to just tool around for Cars and Coffee a GT40 or P4 will not need that but if your hauling the mail around VIR or Barbour I would be wanting to ruin some hotshoes day by out braking them.

If and when I build one of the LMP1 RCR builds I will be all over using CC brakes.

Hammer down!

 

[Tim Kay]

Speed cost money, how fast do you want to go! And in road racing braking is just as important as accelerating. It maybe that I don't need them and they are to be handled carefully, but racing is about getting the best tools for the job, because the job is winning. If you can run 2 to 4 sec a lap better because of those brakes, as they are used on the LMPs, F1 and every expensive car out there. As for the comments about guys pulling them for std brakes, I believe they are just being cheap. and in racing that means slow. Yes they are not for everyone, as they add 10 k or so to the cost of racing, but are you there to just enjoy the ride or make mincemeat of your competition. I solo against EVOs with their light weight, turbos, and 4 wheel drive, but I can drive and have experience to keep up with my stuff. Like I said the car (lambo aventador) accelerated slower than it braked. Maybe they are not for you.

To me the advancement is like comparing drum brakes to discs when they first came out. Jaguar ate Ferrari's lunch because Enzo did not believe the brakes were making the difference back in the day.

If you are building to just tool around for Cars and Coffee a GT40 or P4 will not need that but if your hauling the mail around VIR or Barbour I would be wanting to ruin some hotshoes day by out braking them.

If and when I build one of the LMP1 RCR builds I will be all over using CC brakes.

Hammer down!

Marc, I don't know anything about you and you may be a pro driver in which case I'm jealous and my comment here will not apply to you. For us mere mortal working schlubs that get to the race track on weekends, some maybe every weekend, CC brakes aren't gonna make economical sense. Yes, CC will likely reduce our PB lap times but at club level our overall driving skill is the limiting factor not solely late braking skills.

Yes, "speed cost money, how fast do you want to go" but to what end. Extreme example, I can spend a ton of money and have a faster car, brakes, hp, suspension, ect but without the skill level I'll be sucking the guys dust in front of me all day long 'cuz he's a better driver even though we have the same equipment. The only time I'm gonna beat him is if he's in an inferior car. Not the way I want to win. And the guy that beats the snot out me with superior equipment, same skill level, I'll never beat. But when the equipment is apples to apples that's where the reward is in winning. Better yet, the guys I respect more in the club are the ones driving early model cars laying down faster laps than myself in my late model (better equiped) car.

I may be mistaken but I don't think even in the pro GTC class are they using CC brakes and their lap times are respectible (hehe).

Now as far as the Car & Coffee thing, I kinda think the opposite. It's show and shine time, take the fancy car with all the high dollar gear a show it off. Beat the hot shoe at the track with skill using his equipment.

Tim

 

[Tom]

I recall in the days when the Audi R8 LMP had the quick change rear end that it was stated the carbon rotors were $20K each. They swapped all 4 during the course of LeMans.

Pay to play indeed!

 

[marc]

Tim,
I respect you and your opinion, however if you don't win it doesn't mean a thing. I have a national championship in RC cars way back when, and took courses and scare the pants off most that ride with me. I typically am top 1% with skill, just to big fat old and ugly to be able get sponsership which is what really matters. But when it gets down to driving the car, I want warp speed acceleration, brakes better than Spaceball One and go around turns at 10G. I want to lap my competitors. Why not for respect, f respect, I want to WIN. My hero is Smokey Yunick, I don't consider him a cheater. He followed the rule book to a T. All Nascar could do was use the ole detrimental Nascar (meaning he'd stink up their show) I think of him as an innovator, pioneer and a man who wanted to win more than anything.

Like they say in the movie Tallega Nights "If your not first, your last"

 

[Tim Kay]

Marc, now that I'm getting to know you I like you and you sound like a fun guy in the pits and on the track. You're the guy I'm talking about that has the skill to out drive me and my weekend warrior track junkies no matter what you're in. So yeah, being in that top 1% you need top equipment to compete, although I don't think your competition up there in the 1% are gonna allow you 2-4 sec just with CC vs steel rotors.

I'll still maintain the CC rotors are not economically sensible when, as I said before, that money would pay in dividends for a lot of guys like me if spent on driver coaching.

I guess what I'm trying to say and speaking for myself, the weapon of choice I drive right now exceeds my ability so spending money making it quicker around the race track is not wise. Yes, more horsepower for the straights and better brakes would make me quicker but not necessarily better skilled.

Tim

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Here are a couple of pcs of an SLC with them fitted

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

BTW...20 inch front wheels MUST be used to fit these monsters and we have specific uprights designed for their use.
We do have them instock though...

 

[John Milmont]

What's the weight difference between those and the your iron setup, Fran?

 

[Tim Kay]

wow, nice Fran. So pretty it's a shame you have put a wheel over them.

 

[Howard Jones]

I find the diffuser far more interesting than the brakes. How about a nice couple of pictures of them?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Howard

that's the trackday splitter that we have had for sale for the last three years

 

[Alex]

Do you replace them w/ steel rotors when building the car? It seems like everything means rotor replacement - accidentally hit it with a wheel, accidentally drop a socket on it, accidentally use the rotor as a jacking point( )accidentally kick it in a fit of rage when your tap breaks off in the chassis because you were stupid and used it in a corded drill without slathering it in cutting fluid ( ) - then again, maybe I'm just super sloppy when I build so they'd have more accidents around me, heh.

 

[Howard Jones]

OK, I think I want to do my street splitter like that but I need to keep the higher ground clearance at the nose. A picture of the diffuser would help a bit with that. I do remember that we talked about venting the area in front of the tire to both reduce lift at the front of the car and encourage down force production.

One good picture will do it. Or you could just send me a track spliter.............

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Howard......RCR takes cheques, money orders, Paypal , wire transfer, chickens, goats,timeshares ...just let me know...we have them instock

the Salvation Army is just around the corner though for charity work

 

[marc]

Half a time share? Aruba?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

After -10 deg weather that's really tempting Marc