Ceramic carbon brakes

marc

Lifetime Supporter
I just got out of a lambo aventador w/ carbon ceramic brakes. The brakes were unbelievable. Now I know on that car they are 36k and the lowest I seen them for is 7k(unsure if that was four) but I gotta know if I can setup on my kit(P4).
 
A Wilwood carbon ceramic kit for a mustang is about $16k complete. LOL at anybody who would spend that much on brakes.
 

marc

Lifetime Supporter
Maybe but you would believe this guy was breaking for corners 150 ft shorter than a standard z06 vette including the c7 on a track outside of Ft Worth.
 
Had carbon brakes on my Ducati in 2008 and the stopping power was ridiculous with much less lever input. Also, weight savings was significant 1.1lbs per rotor compared to 3.1lbs. Dramatic improvement to turn in as well. Can only imagine that the performance increase on a car would be significant as well. Pricing would be out of my league at this point, but curious to see if anyone has done it or plans to on their build.
 
They don't necessarily allow you to brake sooner, they're not necessarily 'more powerful' brakes' as such but they get very little or next to no brake fade (definitely not on the street!) and they can save a LOT of unsprung weight.

Considering the Chevrolet brake packages that can be used on an SL-C I'm not surprised someone has stepped in with ZR1 brakes. Great setup there!

Hadn't realised Wilwood do CC brakes now! Good on them! I spoke to these guys at SEMA 2012 and they seemed great:

https://www.sicombrakes.com/

Maybe they can rustle a package for the SL-C or something?
 
When running on slicks I can possibly see there being a little more braking power. I've would think however, most of the time (esp with street tires), the tires themselves are the limit on traction and braking. Once you can lock the wheels up, it does not matter how much better the brakes "bite".
 

Tim Kay

Lifetime Supporter
Most DE and club track junkies with Porsche GT3RS' swap their carbon ceramic rotors out for steel rotors simply due to replacement cost. They are also subject to damage much easier than steel rotors, i.e. something as harmless as changing a wheel can seriously damage a carbon cermamic rotor if the wheel bangs against the rotors edge.

Until the cost comes down considerably I for one can find other things to spend money on to improve my lap times....like a driving coach!
 
"Brakes stop the wheels. Tires stop the car." -- John Purner (He's CCW)

I cannot imagine any reduction in braking distance on DOT tires. That's not to say the reduction in unsprung weight would be without merit. What do the Corvette ZR1 pieces cost?

JR
 
IMHO the cost of carbon/ceramic brakes is no more than the factory RCR brakes, the ceramic brake will last over twice the life of a steel brake, My question would the car be around long enough to use up the life of the ceramic brakes?
 
IMHO the cost of carbon/ceramic brakes is no more than the factory RCR brakes, the ceramic brake will last over twice the life of a steel brake, My question would the car be around long enough to use up the life of the ceramic brakes?
You'll have to explain to me how a ceramic brake setup that is going to cost at least $15k is "no more" than a set of 6 piston Wilwoods and, I think, C4 corvette, rotors.
 

Ron Scarboro

GT40s Supporter
Supporter
Most cost effective way to go tracking is to invest in some high temp brake fluid and pagid race pads.

FWIW, most of the Porsche guys I know opt out of the ceramic rotors for track cars due to cost.

***Sorry, what Tim said*** - Didn't see his post until after I did.
 
Strait from RCR web sight:
Brake Upgrade Package. Front 15″ Brembo floating GT discs with 6-piston Brembo GT Monoblock calipers; rear: 14″ Brembo floating GT discs with 6-piston Brembo GT Monoblock Calipers. $6850... + 2 complete sets of rotors and assuming 2 sets of pads per set of rotors..(need some help getting sub assembly kit part prices)...

... VS...

Porsche 996 Turbo Brakes PCCB Carbon Ceramic Caliper Rotors | eBay

$8300 as an example of fair market value of lightly used Kit.
 

Tim Kay

Lifetime Supporter
IMHO the cost of carbon/ceramic brakes is no more than the factory RCR brakes, the ceramic brake will last over twice the life of a steel brake, My question would the car be around long enough to use up the life of the ceramic brakes?
Strait from RCR web sight:
Brake Upgrade Package. Front 15″ Brembo floating GT discs with 6-piston Brembo GT Monoblock calipers; rear: 14″ Brembo floating GT discs with 6-piston Brembo GT Monoblock Calipers. $6850... + 2 complete sets of rotors and assuming 2 sets of pads per set of rotors..(need some help getting sub assembly kit part prices)...

... VS...

Porsche 996 Turbo Brakes PCCB Carbon Ceramic Caliper Rotors | eBay

$8300 as an example of fair market value of lightly used Kit.
Thomas, you certainly have a point, CC can outlast the steel alternative WITH proper care but, as I mentioned above, they are delicate and will damage easily. My local tire shop won't even take a car on the rack with CC brakes. Proper training must be applied simply mounting & dismounting wheels. Imagine quick wheel changes at the track much less if you have an off track excursion into some gravel area kicking gravel between the rotor and caliper. That could render a rotor worthless, now you need to buy two rotors and with Murphy's Law you won't find another set used so to the 'stealer' you go.

One other concern, if buying used rotors you need to weigh them to know how much life is left. Each rotor is weighed new and stamped on the hat then the used weight will have a reference point, thickness measurement does not apply with CC rotors (Porsche anyways). So in your description above "lightly" could mean buyer beware. Hope this helps.

Tim
 
Ditto what Ben said above. CC aren't going to give you dramatically better braking on a particular stop. However, they will generally do a better job of resisting fade v. steel if you're doing a lot of heavy braking such as during a track day. At least that's the general consensus. In practical daily use, there's absolutely no advantage in my opinion. In fact, there are some huge disadvantages: crazy cost when it comes time to replace the rotors, CC is more easily damaged by road debris (such as a pebble getting stuck between rotor and caliper, and a few other drawbacks.

Just ask any independent ferrari shop....the majority of cars coming in with cc brakes needing a brake job end up with steel replacement rotors.

$7K is for one rotor by the way.
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
The reason carbon/carbon brakes are used in the first place is related to the amount of heat generated over a race distance, and trying to keep the rotors/pads from melting and or transmitting that amount of heat to the fluid and the calipers.

Think long distance events like ALMS 6 hours or the 12 and 24 hour races. The other extreme is F1 or even Indy cars over a much shorter race length, but these cars generate as much as 6 thousand pounds of down force on tires that run at near 180F and stick like glue. Can you imagine the grip they must be getting and how much brake friction is possible before the tires lock. The damn things glow like the sun for gods sake.

We mere mortals building cars in our garage........................well I think I've made my point, I will only say, as kindly as possible.

You're not going that fast.
 
I would do the CC in a heartbeat if I had the change and it was available, matter of fact I did consider it for a Ford based pattern but my rims weren't big enough. Why are you guys comparing the prices of Ferrari and Porsche with GM, are they comparable, retail to retail and used to used?

Lets do a weight comparo. Currently my discs are front 1 3/8 x 12 and weigh 14#, the rears are 1 1/4 x 12 and weigh 11#. That might have changed to a lighter weight as I changed them out to a floating design and the rotors used less internal fins and were lighter I believe. Lets say the difference per corner is 10#, that's 40# total, all unsprung and rotating weight which relates to quicker acceleration and deceleration, and probably better directional change and all those other road holding tidbits. The CC stuff and the rotors they replace are larger in diameter so the perceived driving differences and weights could be greater. On a 3000#+ Porsche or Ferrari that might not mean much but the RCR cars are quite a bit lighter.

So lets say you put a lighter clutch and flywheel on, plus the CC brakes. This is all rotating weight and worth a bit of perceived HP and also noticeable deceleration so you actually use the brakes less.

I've not driven a setup with CC brakes but did have experience with something similarly lightweight in the wheel and drivetrain category and the experience is worth it, it is available 100% of the time.
 
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