DEtroit USA

DETROIT -- DETROIT (AP) — Detroit's emergency manager testified Monday that he had thought as late as June that a bankruptcy filing could be avoided but that he knew time was running out for the city and its creditors to agree to concessions.
Testifying on the fourth day of a trial to determine whether Detroit is eligible to fix its finances in bankruptcy court, emergency manager Kevyn Orr said he received a couple of counter-proposals from creditors, but none from unions or retirees before filing for bankruptcy protection in July.
"Anyone paying attention knew the time had come to make some very difficult decisions," Orr said of a June meeting with hundreds of the city's creditors. "We were in a financial emergency and were going to have to move very quickly."
Detroit must show it is broke and tried in good faith to negotiate with creditors. Attorneys who oppose the filing seeking the largest municipal bankruptcy protection in U.S. history have tried to build a case that bankruptcy was a predetermined course or inevitable outcome.
Orr said Friday that filing for bankruptcy wasn't a condition of his employment. He is expected to be grilled by attorneys representing unions and pension funds, who say the city didn't hold genuine talks and therefore the case should be thrown out.
He said Monday that after he took the job he saw firsthand the high crime, blight and deplorable conditions of police equipment and facilities in Detroit.
"I knew things were bad," Orr testified. "It was somewhat shocking ... just how dire it was."
Orr, a bankruptcy expert who represented automaker Chrysler LLC during its successful restructuring, has said the city is saddled with $18 billion in long-term debt. He and Police Chief James Craig both have testified about the city's dire straits.
"Detroit spends more than it takes in. It is clearly insolvent on a cash-flow basis," Orr testified as he read from a report he issued in spring after 45 days as emergency manager.
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
'Red State Socialism' graphic says GOP-leaning states get lion's share of federal dollars

This graphic has been circulating on the Internet since 2008. We check how accurate it is.

Many GOP-leaning states get more in federal funding than they contribute in federal taxes.
That's the point made by a graphic that’s circulating on the Internet, titled "Red State Socialism." A reader recently pointed us to it and asked us to check it out. The chart suggests that Republicans are hypocritical for bashing the federal government and federal spending, when Republican-leaning states are reaping the lion’s share of federal dollars.
 
'Red State Socialism' graphic says GOP-leaning states get lion's share of federal dollars

This graphic has been circulating on the Internet since 2008. We check how accurate it is.

Many GOP-leaning states get more in federal funding than they contribute in federal taxes.
That's the point made by a graphic that’s circulating on the Internet, titled "Red State Socialism." A reader recently pointed us to it and asked us to check it out. The chart suggests that Republicans are hypocritical for bashing the federal government and federal spending, when Republican-leaning states are reaping the lion’s share of federal dollars.
What does your comment have to do with the above.
Oh I get it its to avoid adressing issue by going in another idrection..
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Sean pardon my ignorance on this matter but are the city`s not automatically bailed out by central government :confused:

Bob
Bob, the "Central Government" is certainally "bailing out" an number of areas, including most of the Red States!
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
What does your comment have to do with the above.
Oh I get it its to avoid adressing issue by going in another idrection..
Sean,

You are new here and you obviously are not aware of this, but most of us have vowed to never start a divisive one sided political thread, they just make everyone angry.

Believe me there are hundreds of topic that paint the right in a bad way, but is pisses everyone off!

That is why you never see a thread started that attacks the right, we have promised not to!

Would you please join us in the Vow?
 
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Of course, any news item that appears to show cities run by liberal regimes are collapsing in on themselves is biased and pisses "everyone" off. Laugh out loud.
 
Sean pardon my ignorance on this matter but are the city`s not automatically bailed out by central government :confused:

Bob
Actualy Detroit has had a number of bailouts, to no avail. The population is now 50% of its peak with entire neighbourhoods abandoned or returning to farms.
 
Sean,

You are new here and you obviously are not aware of this, but most of us have vowed to never start a divisive one sided political thread, they just make everyone angry.

Believe me there are hundreds of topic that paint the right in a bad way, but is pisses everyone off!

That is why you never see a thread started that attacks the right, we have promised not to!

Would you please join us in the Vow?
I see so you maintain by inference that this news shows the "left" in a bad way. i think it just shows how inept governemnt is at delivering and holding expenses. It also shows the inevitable outcome of deficit spending and high taxes. Ie loss of indsutry population and bankrupcy.

Now you may think this is divisive, but I maintain whther Republican or democrat goverment offocials are poor stewards of our money. Republicans have started warsd and overspent on military toys. Democrats start and poorly run social service programs. The problem is governement and how it runs.

Cirporations are also large unanswerable ossified and inept, look at kodak and even micorsoft now struggles. What keeps corporations alive is competition or death. We have no way of ending poorly run gov prgrams or cutting government down to size. What detroit, spain greece iceland illustrates is that without a change of the way governements spend desrtuction or collapse is inevitable its just a function of when.

All I want is fiscal responsibility. as to social programs I dont care how liberal they are, just that thye are affordable.

So instead of this being divisive lets see how w emight have done things differently. Or what what happned in detroit inevitable?
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Sean,

You are new here and you obviously are not aware of this, but most of us have vowed to never start a divisive one sided political thread, they just make everyone angry.

Believe me there are hundreds of topic that paint the right in a bad way, but is pisses everyone off!

That is why you never see a thread started that attacks the right, we have promised not to!

Would you please join us in the Vow?
When did we do that?
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Pete,

Surly you must remember....

A while back when Mr Fechter was starting almost daily absurd, lie filled, one sided posts that caused so much strife there was talk of shutting down the Paddock.

At that time most of us vowed never to start a one sided politicaly devisive thread, attacking one political viewpoint.

Pete have you noticed that over the last year virtually all the folks starting these types of threads are from the Right?

Rest ashured there are hundreds of topic that I could post showing just how incompitent the right is, but we do not post them.

Who will join us in vowing to never start one sided politically devisive threads?
 

Steve

Supporter
Sean,

You are new here and you obviously are not aware of this, but most of us have vowed to never start a divisive one sided political thread, they just make everyone angry.

Believe me there are hundreds of topic that paint the right in a bad way, but is pisses everyone off!

That is why you never see a thread started that attacks the right, we have promised not to!

Would you please join us in the Vow?
Helloooo Kettle, this is the Pot (Craikpot that is). I've got news for you. You're black!:laugh:
 

Steve

Supporter
I see so you maintain by inference that this news shows the "left" in a bad way. i think it just shows how inept governemnt is at delivering and holding expenses. It also shows the inevitable outcome of deficit spending and high taxes. Ie loss of indsutry population and bankrupcy.

Now you may think this is divisive, but I maintain whther Republican or democrat goverment offocials are poor stewards of our money. Republicans have started warsd and overspent on military toys. Democrats start and poorly run social service programs. The problem is governement and how it runs.

Cirporations are also large unanswerable ossified and inept, look at kodak and even micorsoft now struggles. What keeps corporations alive is competition or death. We have no way of ending poorly run gov prgrams or cutting government down to size. What detroit, spain greece iceland illustrates is that without a change of the way governements spend desrtuction or collapse is inevitable its just a function of when.

All I want is fiscal responsibility. as to social programs I dont care how liberal they are, just that thye are affordable.

So instead of this being divisive lets see how w emight have done things differently. Or what what happned in detroit inevitable?

There is no US federal govt entitlement program that, once created, has ever been ended. Ever. In the history of our country. Entitlement programs are likely more addictive than cocaine (although probably less addictive than Oreo's).

A lobbyist once pointed out to me the troubles with entitlement programs. Once created, they are often bloated and wasteful. Over time, they also get abused. Ultimately, they begin to go way overbudget. Congress attempts to correct but this usually results in more spending. Once it's apparent that the program is beyond repair, there are thoughts given to ending the program. Lobbyists step in and remind Congressmen that private industry has developed around this entitlement program to support it and if the program is ended, there will be X number of private industry jobs in your district that disappear. Those newly unemployed combined with those who have grown dependent on the program will be lobbied hard to vote the selfish insensitive Congressman out of office. So, he reconsiders ending the program and either tries to fix it again (more money thrown at it) or simply walks away, allowing the waste to continue and the amoeba to grow. Sounds exactly like Food Stamps, Medicare, Social Security Disability etc, etc, etc....
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
Helloooo Kettle, this is the Pot (Craikpot that is). I've got news for you. You're black!:laugh:
Steve

My name is Jim.

Steve I have vowed never to start a divisive politcal thread, will you?
 

Steve

Supporter
Sean pardon my ignorance on this matter but are the city`s not automatically bailed out by central government :confused:

Bob
Good question Bob. There is neither an implied nor a legal obligation of the federal government, or even the state government for that matter, to bail out a city. Since these entities can't print money, it often blows up in a real ugly way as in Detroit. There are a number of states with extremely large unfunded pension liabilities (much like Detroits). California is the largest. There is a big concern that these liabilities could somehow become the federal governments, compounding our debt issues...
 

Pete McCluskey.

Lifetime Supporter
Pete,

Surly you must remember....

A while back when Mr Fechter was starting almost daily absurd, lie filled, one sided posts that caused so much strife there was talk of shutting down the Paddock.

At that time most of us vowed never to start a one sided politicaly devisive thread, attacking one political viewpoint.

Pete have you noticed that over the last year virtually all the folks starting these types of threads are from the Right?

Rest ashured there are hundreds of topic that I could post showing just how incompitent the right is, but we do not post them.

Who will join us in vowing to never start one sided politically devisive threads?
No I don't remember, and no I won't join you in that vow because what you really mean is any post that doesn't adhere to your left wing philosophy is politically devisive.
And this is the paddock where anything goes including I assume freedom of speech.
 

Steve

Supporter
Steve

My name is Jim.

Steve I have vowed never to start a divisive politcal thread, will you?
Are you running for office Jimbo? You sound like it.

It's mighty collegial of you to make such a vow whilst coming into other people's threads and wreaking havoc.

Sean's posting was not partisan, it was simply pointing out the failures of years of overspending and the ultimate result. He made no mention of party. Now, I prefer to not pull punches:

[ame]http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI8HRGWKCRc[/ame]

:thumbsup:
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
I promise, if you don't start a one sided, politicaly devisive thread, I will not answer it and you'll hear nothing political from me! Lets talk GT40's I have a nice one!

But rest ashured that if you start a thread like that, not only will I point out where you are mistaken, but I will also use the opportunity to point out failings from the right. That only seems fair.
 

Steve

Supporter
I promise, if you don't start a one sided, politicaly devisive thread, I will not answer it, and you'll here nothing political from me! Lets talk GT40's I have a nice one!

But rest ashured that if you start a thread like that not only will I point out where you are mistaken but I will also use the opportunity to point out failings from the right. That only seems fair.

Well, I only understood about half of that and seeing as how I haven't started a thread in the Paddock in sometime I think I'll ignore the rest.

Having said that, I'm disappointed you haven't commented on the honorable Joann Watson's diatribe? She is a democrat? Don't you all think alike just like we white, racist, stupid, tax evading, selfish, slave-owning, hippocritical, bigoted, republicans?
 

Jim Craik

Lifetime Supporter
I promise, if you don't start a one sided, politicaly devisive thread, I will not answer it and you'll hear nothing political from me! Lets talk GT40's I have a nice one!

But rest ashured that if you start a thread like that, not only will I point out where you are mistaken, but I will also use the opportunity to point out failings from the right. That only seems fair.
Steve, I wasn't talking to you.
 
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