DEtroit USA

Keith

Moderator
Totally agree with that. Wales was an industrial waste land relying on redundant heavy industry that has reinvented itself.

I don't think the lessons there can be applied in Detroit - there seems to be little political will from central government, or indeed, under their system, if central (Federal) government gets involved in these regional things at all.

Perhaps, (and who wouldn't agree) Detroit should be labelled an official Disaster Zone?

On second thoughts, they haven't even reconstructed New Orleans yet...:worried:
 
Someone has to get the ball rolling. Welsh industry was faced with similar issues to Detroit and they set about changing the face of the place. Government money was used with incentives which has attracted many new and successful industries. Wales.com - Creative Industries

The first move has to be made by government , no one in their right mind would invest in the run down industrial areas of Detroit. It has to be brought up to spec.

Bob

Yes but here we have city government running the place, and they are the impediment. Once city goverment is removed from the equation, like lancing a boil, then the state and other entities can get going with regeneration.

There have been numerous loans and incentives for detroit. All those did was feed a hungry city gov monster.

But yes after the current city admin and its ineffciency are gone, those incentives may actualy work. What is happening now is the state is saying no more of the same, and more money, the classic lib cure will only make it worse.
 
Totally agree with that. Wales was an industrial waste land relying on redundant heavy industry that has reinvented itself.

I don't think the lessons there can be applied in Detroit - there seems to be little political will from central government, or indeed, under their system, if central (Federal) government gets involved in these regional things at all.

Perhaps, (and who wouldn't agree) Detroit should be labelled an official Disaster Zone?

On second thoughts, they haven't even reconstructed New Orleans yet...:worried:


New Orleans is actualy in great shaoe. What has not been reconstructed there is the living spaces in low laying flood plains. But then untill the late 50's early 60's there was no one living in those parts anyway.

Some of those areas flooded were middle class, even upper middle class, other ghteto. There was some effort to reconstruct the ghetto housing, and little for the middle or upper middle.

In fact much of New Orleans as we know it was battered by the hurricane but not destroyed at all. The City has regenerated very well. Its certainly in better shape than it was in the 80's when I lived there.

Certain shrill lib voices are upset that ghetto neighbourhoods which moved to Texas for free stuff and have not returned, because there is not free stuff in New Orleans. Dint believe the boohoo stroies prtrayed by hollwod activists looking for reckognition. New Orleans is going through a property boom, looks great and is in full swing.
 

Keith

Moderator
I stand corrected Sean, but I have seen recent programs on the desolation in parts of the city. Are you saying that's propaganda?

And if that's propaganda, perhaps Detroit is?

What's a foreigner to make of it all eh? :shifty:
 
I stand corrected Sean, but I have seen recent programs on the desolation in parts of the city. Are you saying that's propaganda?

And if that's propaganda, perhaps Detroit is?

What's a foreigner to make of it all eh? :shifty:

Yes outlaying parts of the city which were below the flood plain remain and will remain unbuilt or inreconstructed. Those areas should never have been built upon.

Certain hollywood types trying to get attention point to those areas, built afew brightly colored houses and claim to be doing something, the former populations have disperesed, either to otehr parts of the city, or other states.

The New orleans most people think about which stretcehs from Carrolton avenue through to the french quarter is more vibrant than it ever was and is enjoying a property boom.

What contrasts New Orleans with Detroit is that after the storm New Orleans regenerated, got rid of deadwood and impediments and does its thing better than before. The city council is multi racial, with the program, and property pices are rising as is revenue. New Orleans reckognised that it needed to get its act together and move on.

By contrast Detroit has just doubled down on bad practices depressing home values desireability and sending the whole shebang into a tailspin, fically and physicaly

One city decided to be competitive, put what aid they had to good use and is better off than before. The other city stayed in terminal decline, looking to hook more free money ont he way down and now its over.
 

Pat

Supporter
New Orleans is actualy in great shaoe. What has not been reconstructed there is the living spaces in low laying flood plains. But then untill the late 50's early 60's there was no one living in those parts anyway.

Sean, just for the record, the Lower 9th Ward (epicenter for the Katrina flooding) was populated well before the 1950's. Jackson Barracks was established there in 1832.
Remember the levee system in New Orleans was built primarily to protect the City from the Mississippi River not the lake. Katrina was a once in a century confluence of the tide and the storm hitting at exactly the wrong place at the worst time. Here is an interesting graphic. (Fyi, my wife grew up in Gentilly, center top of the map).
http://www.nola.com/katrina/graphics/flashflood.swf
 
We love a graph on here:). Is or was there ever a good reason to populate this place considering its below sea/river or canal level and the US is not short of land above it???

elevationmap9ox.gif
 
Sean, just for the record, the Lower 9th Ward (epicenter for the Katrina flooding) was populated well before the 1950's. Jackson Barracks was established there in 1832.
Remember the levee system in New Orleans was built primarily to protect the City from the Mississippi River not the lake. Katrina was a once in a century confluence of the tide and the storm hitting at exactly the wrong place at the worst time. Here is an interesting graphic. (Fyi, my wife grew up in Gentilly, center top of the map).
http://www.nola.com/katrina/graphics/flashflood.swf

I looked at the graphics. Uptown the garden district most of what outsiders considder NO survived fine in terms of flooding. In fact any big storm and parts of the city flood, thats why there are still pumping stations, its also why older homes were built afew feet up on higher gorund so the water flowed undeneath.

I also said middle class areas got wiped out. Metarie is a perfect example and took the brunt of the flooding. Yet I dont see any hollywood types bleating on about the people who lost their homes in Metarie or building houses for them..

The heart of the city came through fine and is vibrant again. NO was called the crescent city because historicaly it was built on the high ground, and those areas survived fine.

And yes there are some areas that should not be built upon, to point to those derilict areas now and say the city has not been rebuilt or recovered is incorrect, but yeah the media loves a good story.
 

Pat

Supporter
I looked at the graphics. Uptown the garden district most of what outsiders considder NO survived fine in terms of flooding. In fact any big storm and parts of the city flood, thats why there are still pumping stations, its also why older homes were built afew feet up on higher gorund so the water flowed undeneath.

I also said middle class areas got wiped out. Metarie is a perfect example and took the brunt of the flooding. Yet I dont see any hollywood types bleating on about the people who lost their homes in Metarie or building houses for them..

The heart of the city came through fine and is vibrant again. NO was called the crescent city because historicaly it was built on the high ground, and those areas survived fine.

And yes there are some areas that should not be built upon, to point to those derilict areas now and say the city has not been rebuilt or recovered is incorrect, but yeah the media loves a good story.

Sean, "Uptown the Garden District survived with no flooding???" Tulane flooded, The water levels resulted in standing water ranging from several inches to several feet on the half of the campus sitting north of Freret Street. My brother's home in Metairie had three feet of water in it. That said, it was nothing compared to the devastation in the 9th Ward and New Orleans East. Look at the graphic on my last posting.
 
Sean, "Uptown the Garden District survived with no flooding???" Tulane flooded, The water levels resulted in standing water ranging from several inches to several feet on the half of the campus sitting north of Freret Street. My brother's home in Metairie had three feet of water in it. That said, it was nothing compared to the devastation in the 9th Ward and New Orleans East. Look at the graphic on my last posting.

Metarie got wiped I agree, yet everyone is shedding a tear for "less fortunate" neighbourhoods.

I am not saying Tulane or Uptown didnt have water, but the water there there was not devastating and those areas survived fairly intact. Tulane looks better than ever, no buildings destroyed, the quarter survived intact.

Any huge rain strom and Tulane gets "flooding", I have been on Feret street up to my waist in water in the 80's, and there was no hurricane. There is a difference between some flooding and flooded out devastated/destroyed.

In any event its getting off the point. Even if there were floods in New Orleans, and widespread devastation, the city or the future habitable parts are largely rebuilt and enjoying relative economic properity and a property boom. This heavily contrasts with Detroit which destroyed itself, and untill there is an attitde change cant get rebuilt, or at least no one wants to attempt this.

Yes there are areas of NO still to do some rehab on, but its growing and propering, which is a serious contrast to Detroit.

Destruction in NO, money flows in, city gets on with the job rehabs and propsers. Detroit, kills the goose that lays its golden egg, multiple bailouts loans etc, still in terminal decline.

And yes parts of No will never get rebuilt, and they should not have been built on in the frst place which is why they wont get rebuilt on now.That does not mean that NO is like detroit, devasted and still unreconstructed.
 
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