Dynaformance ECU Problems

[Chris]

Hi all. First post here and subscribing to this thread. I own a 1966 Mustang GT fastback with a Roush 342R stroker engine.

I just fitted a Dynaformance throttle body setup, and reading these posts I note that I have been down a path that will be familiar to you. First I discovered the supplied computer was not really up to the job, so fitted a sequential computer (LINK brand). The adaptability of the new computer resolved a significant number of issues.

After hours on the dyno, and significant problems in balancing each bank out, we've got the car going fairly well, making good horsepower and torque. The throttle bodies are still out of sync with each other in various rpm ranges, but we've tried to map the computer around it.

My biggest problem will be a familiar story - I can't get the car to idle below 1250 rpm. I've got the timing pegged right back at idle etc, but it's still idling to high.

My system was delivered before Jan 2010, so I suspect I have the 'thick' butterflys.

I've emailed Dynatek asking if they can supply me with 'thin butterfly' TB's.

Are there any other tips or tricks from your experiences to assist in getting my idle lower ?

Thanks

 

[Mike Huddart]

Re: webbers against injection.

Hi all. First post here and subscribing to this thread. I own a 1966 Mustang GT fastback with a Roush 342R stroker engine.

I just fitted a Dynaformance throttle body setup, and reading these posts I note that I have been down a path that will be familiar to you. First I discovered the supplied computer was not really up to the job, so fitted a sequential computer (LINK brand). The adaptability of the new computer resolved a significant number of issues.

After hours on the dyno, and significant problems in balancing each bank out, we've got the car going fairly well, making good horsepower and torque. The throttle bodies are still out of sync with each other in various rpm ranges, but we've tried to map the computer around it.

My biggest problem will be a familiar story - I can't get the car to idle below 1250 rpm. I've got the timing pegged right back at idle etc, but it's still idling to high.

My system was delivered before Jan 2010, so I suspect I have the 'thick' butterflys.

I've emailed Dynatek asking if they can supply me with 'thin butterfly' TB's.

Are there any other tips or tricks from your experiences to assist in getting my idle lower ?

Thanks

Chris,
welcome to the club, both the GT40 and the "can't get my Dynaformance to idle club"

Can pretty much tick every point on your list, never did try the original Dynaformance ECM and in a perverse way I am glad you say you had problems with it. I knew it wouldn't work properly, particularly with our emission regs here in the UK, that's why we converted ours to the Accel system, we were the first to do that. As a matter of interest, what problems did you have.

You will have to take the throttle bodies off and hold them up to the light to see where the butterflies are leaking, on all four of ours there was a mismatch, possibly with the spindles not machined parallel. The little button cap screw were glued in that tight I didn't want to risk breaking anything. We got three pretty good by whacking the butterflies (carefully) with a plastic drift but one was too far out so we will have to sort that another day. Some of Dynaformances remedial sugestions were even more "country boy" than that!

Also the throttle bodies did not line up on the manifold so had to slot the two fixed throttle levers to get them to line up, one TB was holding the next one open. We finished up with an idle below 1000 with 5% IAC, do you have IAC control on yours. We cut the timing at idle to 16deg. The Accel system allows you to trim the fuel coefficient on each individual cylinder which is usefull if one TB is pulling too much air, can you do that with yours.

On any susequent order we have insisted they supply the butterflies loose so we can fit them properly, we are too far away to go through this everytime, worse for you. Hopefully the new, thin butterflies will sort the problem

I still think it's a good system though and the results we have had are very encouraging. Let me know how you get on.
Mike

 

[Chris]

Re: webbers against injection.

Thanks for your advice Mike, I will follow up on your suggestions.

The issue with the Dynaformance supplied ECU is that it is Batch Fire, making it unsuitable to attempt to map around what might be inherent problems in the Dynaformance setup, and my dyno tuner had difficulty with ignition mapping.

Like you, after installing a sequential fire tuneable ECU we have adjusted timing and fuel in multiple rpm ranges to attempt to resolve issues.

I don't have IAC - I didn't know they offered it; and will chase this up with Dynaformance.

Having said all that, after many dyno hours I now have more torque and horsepower everywhere. On overtake I now shift back to 4th gear (T5 5 speed) whereas before installing the Dynaformance I used to shift back to 3rd for strong acceleration. And it looks cool :thumbsup:

Yes, despite the issues it is a good system, but it'd be be nice if I could get the car to idle correctly :sad:

 

[Mike Huddart]

Re: webbers against injection.

Thanks for your advice Mike, I will follow up on your suggestions.

The issue with the Dynaformance supplied ECU is that it is Batch Fire, making it unsuitable to attempt to map around what might be inherent problems in the Dynaformance setup, and my dyno tuner had difficulty with ignition mapping.

Like you, after installing a sequential fire tuneable ECU we have adjusted timing and fuel in multiple rpm ranges to attempt to resolve issues.

I don't have IAC - I didn't know they offered it; and will chase this up with Dynaformance.

Having said all that, after many dyno hours I now have more torque and horsepower everywhere. On overtake I now shift back to 4th gear (T5 5 speed) whereas before installing the Dynaformance I used to shift back to 3rd for strong acceleration. And it looks cool :thumbsup:

Yes, despite the issues it is a good system, but it'd be be nice if I could get the car to idle correctly :sad:

Chris,
Dynaformance didn't fit an IAC with their original kits, one reason we converted ours to Accel. I think they now offer the Accel kit as an option but don't know if they incude an IAC. If your ECM will run an IAC you might as well get something like the Accel remote IAC, you can mount it on the rear bulkhead and it connects to the vacuum plenum with a 3/8 hose, works really well. I don't know the logistics of getting parts in NZ, there are three Accel dealers in Aus, or is it as easy to buy direct. I can give you the part numbers for the Accel IAC and wiring connector if you want and the contact details for Accel.
If you can work something out it's a worthwhile addition.
Mike

 

[Chris]

Re: webbers against injection.

Hi Mike - Is the the Accel IAC you use - model 74779k ?. If so can you advise of the wiring connector details please ?

Dynaformance replied saying I could have thin throttle blades but to be very careful when installing them

I tried adjusting the center hex a bit more - but it promptly threw everything else out. I'd taken measurements so set it back to where it was.

thanks for the advice..

 

[Mike Huddart]

Re: webbers against injection.

Hi Mike - Is the the Accel IAC you use - model 74779k ?. If so can you advise of the wiring connector details please ?

Dynaformance replied saying I could have thin throttle blades but to be very careful when installing them

I tried adjusting the center hex a bit more - but it promptly threw everything else out. I'd taken measurements so set it back to where it was.

thanks for the advice..

Chris,
yes, that's the one. If you are ordering one, get them to confirm it comes with the vacuum fitting, the last one we had was missing, Accel are on an economy drive and one or two things like that have been left out of kits lately. If you need to get one it's 3/8 pushon to 1/2 NPT, manifold fitting is 3/8 NPT.

Wiring adapter is #77651, that's listed as a GM LT1, it plugs directly into the Accel main harness so you may have to do some mods to adapt it to yours. Not sure of the main harness connector #, but its a square 4 pin male, I can get the # for you if you want.

Love the comment from Dynaformance about being carefull fitting the new butterflies, a bit more care on their part might have avoided all this ! Might be an idea to ask for the button head screws that fasten them to the shafts I think you may have fun getting the old ones out, the ones we had were well glued in and I gave up 'till a better day. Also, get them to confirm that they use the same throttle spindles for both the thick, and new, thin butterflies, it's the sort of thing that might not occur to them untill somebody asks. I'm due to phone them next week with the same questions !

Best of luck and let me know how you get on. If you'r dyno man ever needs to compare notes our e.mail is [email protected]

Mike

 

[Jac Mac]

Might not be applicable in this situation, but usually a quick application of oxy/acet flame will destroy the 'glue-loctite' that is used on butterfly screws- just a small flame, a bigger one destroys more than reqd... It should go without saying that all remaining fuel etc must be removed from the part before doing this..

 

[Mike Huddart]

Might not be applicable in this situation, but usually a quick application of oxy/acet flame will destroy the 'glue-loctite' that is used on butterfly screws- just a small flame, a bigger one destroys more than reqd... It should go without saying that all remaining fuel etc must be removed from the part before doing this..

Jac,
agreed, but the sort of job best left for a nice quiet day, not when you're trying to map an engine on the dyno!
The butterfly thing really only gave problems with the idle so once we decided what the problem was I was happy ( ish ) to leave the fix to another day when things were not so hectic. To be honest, though, we needed the new butterflies as the ones we had were leaking down the sides and generally a lousy fit.
Thanks for the interest, Mike

 

[Chris]

Mike - on the basis that there's no such thing as a stupid question :laugh:

How does an IAC assist in bringing the idle revs down ?. I know they are normally used for managing / increasing rpm off base idle when under load etc.

I spoke further with my dyno tuner who confirmed air leakage past the throttle butterflys is the cause of my high idle.


Thanks
Chris

 

[Mike Huddart]

Mike - on the basis that there's no such thing as a stupid question :laugh:

How does an IAC assist in bringing the idle revs down ?. I know they are normally used for managing / increasing rpm off base idle when under load etc.

I spoke further with my dyno tuner who confirmed air leakage past the throttle butterflys is the cause of my high idle.


Thanks
Chris

Chris,
it doesn't, but when you have got the idle right with your new butterflies ( hopefully ) then it's great for cold start fast idle, compensating for air con pumps etc. The IAC really gives the motor a modern feel to it just as a proper EFI system should.
Mike

 

[Woody]

Hi Chris
Welcome to the forum
I cant help you with the electronics but I have played with full flow injection on sprint cars. And I can confirm that your Idle problem does sound like butterfly adjustment. It helps when your butterfly shaft is split and can be adjusted individually. If not, fit your new butterflys and nip up the screws only. Fit a 0.002" feeler gauge down the side of a butterfly and set the idle screw so you have a slight drag on the feeler gauge when its withdrawn. Then go through the rest and adjust the butterflys so they all feel the same. This is very time consuming but it will make all the difference.
I hope this helps
PS: When removing old screws check the underside of the butterfly KINSLER INJECTION splay the tail of the screw so they cant fall out
they need to be ground off first. May not be relervant to your manifold but worth a look!

 

[Eric]

Gentleman,

I have gone through similar idle issues with my car that is fitted with
TWM throttle bodies and an Accel DFI Gen 7.

After much tuning and fiddling the surefire cure was were two
throttle return springs that I bought from the hardware store.

Car idles at a perfect 1000 rpm when warm with IAC closed.

The springs seem to put just enough pressure to shut the throttle plates.

Previous to the springs the idle was about 1200.

Eric

 

[Randy V]

I would advise that however the screws are retained that you use a similar retention strategy with the new screws when replacing the throttle plates.

 

The feeler gauge method only works so so, a flow meter is the only way to go. Synchronization is the number three thing to do when tuning, number one is to check for fuel leaks, number 2 is set the timing.

 

[Dwight]

What is the thickness of the butterflies?

Dwight

 

[Dwight]

bump to the top

 

[Jim Cowden]

I had issues with a brand of throttle body, the shafts were flexing at idle due to high vacuum.
It would also effect the way it returned to idle, I figured it out because the throttle return was slower when the eng was running than what it was turn off.

I gave up on them after that.

Jim

 

[Dwight]

Jim was it the Dynaformance TBs?

Dwight

 

[Dwight]

I know this is an old thread but I'm still working on getting my GT 40 on the road,
I bought Allan Uzwiah GT 40 with the Dynaformance injection system. I have gone thru the car replacing or repairing it. Now I'm down to the injection system. I can not get it to run without missing and backfiring.
So, I removed the Dynatec system last Wednesday. Thursday I called Dynaformance who informed me they had sold that part of their business to Bob at Accuform. I called Bob and we had a long conversation about the history of the system and the problems. He is going to help me to get mine running. We are going to check everything to see that I have the correct butterflies, etc. Next week he is going to mail me a disc with a download program to reload into the ECU. I will re-install the intake, TB's, etc correctly and then try to crank the motor. Wish me luck.
I have a gold colored ECU. Does anyone know what brand it is? Bob told me he manufactured the hardware but Dynaformance bought the wiring and ECU from another source. He said most of the systems where sold with a Pantera (spelling?) ECU. A good street unit but not good for racing.
I think between Bob, his tec guy, my buddy the Ford mechanic and a dyno shop I used last June to tune my Cobra, I think I can get this thing on the road. I'm so happy!
Dwight

 

[Dwight]

old thread but

there is a thread on Club Cobra about the company that bought Dynaformance

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