Electric cars, in a nutshell...

Randy V

Administrator
#2
But what the picture doesn’t show is that the ICE car or truck owner has a very restricted number of fuel sources. Almost all of them look like a pump. Almost all pumps are connected to underground tanks. Almost all underground tanks are filled by road-going tankers (which coincidently burn some sort of fossil fuel). Almost all of these tankers fill up at a refinery or distribution hub. ALL refineries consume fuel to crack the crude oil to make fuels. ALL refineries have waste byproducts that are hazardous.
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Not all EV and/or hybrid owners and fans are left-wing environmentalists.
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I will almost guarantee you that once you strap into a Tesla switched into Ludicrous Mode that you will forget about your preconceived notions and really could care less about where the power is coming from or its fuel source. You will most likely not care that there’s not an ICE in the car that makes all sorts of comforting growling sounds. You will be in lust with the brute strength of the electric motor and will be uttering your own guttural sounds as your eyesight narrows with tunnel-vision from the acceleration...
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Trust me - I know this to be true...
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Premier Supporter
#3
...once you strap into a Tesla switched into Ludicrous Mode that you will forget about your preconceived notions and really could care less about where the power is coming from or its fuel source. You will most likely not care that there’s not an ICE in the car that makes all sorts of comforting growling sounds. You will be in lust with the brute strength of the electric motor and will be uttering your own guttural sounds as your eyesight narrows with tunnel-vision from the acceleration

All so very true, Grasshopper...but, it doesn't invalidate Mike's base point: EVs aren't really as "green" as the GW/CC crowd would have us believe.

As regards "preconceived notions" about from where a car's power should be derived: were it not for the uncertainty surrounding just how bad Tesla's production/financial woes are and may yet GET...and the unknowns regarding how the gubmunt intends to hit EVs tax-wise to make up for lost gas tax revenue...and the present/future costs revolving around an EV's battery...a Tesla S P100D would be sitting on the Mrs.' side of the garage right now. (She would probably never utilize its...uh...'potential'...but I might. ;) )

Regardless, my 'hot rods' will continue to be 'ICE'-powered just because. 'Far as I'm concerned, when it comes to hot rods, if one can't HEAR it 3 blocks before one can SEE it - it ain't worth ownin'.

You know what they say about "old dogs"...
 
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#6
It's a fine balance of when you charge, what type of car, and regional generator fuels used. In many cases a typical "hybrid" produces less greenhouse gas than a full electric car will when the source of the electric charge is considered. With the increased wind injection into the grid, that will change. The main offender...coal...is economically being replaced by natural gas, which brings the two (hybrid/electric) closer together in comparisons of total emissions.
 

Mike Drew

Active Member
#7
Regardless, my 'hot rods' will continue to be 'ICE'-powered just because. 'Far as I'm concerned, when it comes to hot rods, if one can't HEAR it 3 blocks before one can SEE it - it ain't worth ownin'.

You know what they say about "old dogs"...
Amen!

For the record, I have driven a Tesla S. It was very fast but NOT very green, despite what they would have you believe.

FWIW a friend of mine was aggressively recruited by Elon Musk personally to become the head of manufacturing for Tesla (he currently has the same title at a global non-automotive company). The offer was very attractive but in the end, he turned it down because he couldn’t get past the idea that Teslas aren’t ‘real’ cars.

He has gas running through his veins, like most of us....
 

Steve

Gold Supporter
#9
There have been some developments from U of Michigan (I believe) that have doubled solar panel efficiency to somewhere in the mid to upper 30's%. Could make home-based solar more economically viable. My house has a geothermal HVAC and infloor heat everywhere (including the garage). The ROI was about 18 months with the tax credit. Now the house is 1/2 the energy bill for the duration of its existence. All houses should do this. It's a no-brainer. Solar is not there yet. When it is (especially if combined with Musk's solar roof panels that aesthetically look great) it'll be a game-changer. My energy bill will drop another 50-80% and I'll use the stored energy from the panels to charge my car at night.
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Premier Supporter
#10
I think I could convert to a Porsche Mission E for a daily driver...

Porsche Mission E electric car: price, features, sale date - Business Insider

If all "the press" on them to date has been accurate, they'd be a darned good option, too...but, at the moment they aren't available...'we really don't know when they actually will be...neither do we know what their actual cost will be once all the aforesaid IS known (paragraph #2 of the above article not withstanding).

I really like their looks (I prefer their looks over Tesla's truth be told)...and their 'suicide' rear doors! Porsche just needs to 'step it up a bit' in the 0-60 area! ;)

(Edit: One thing's for sure though...it's not likely Porsche's finances will be of any concern to buyers...)
 
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Randy V

Administrator
#11
Love to hear more about your place Steve....

To be more objective about EVs and Hybrids, I pretty much through all the GREEN-BS out the window... The point I was trying to make earlier was that there is a heckuva lot more emissions attributed to ICE power than most people are willing to grasp.
All that said - the EV is back and I don’t think it is going to go away again....

My old Honda Hurricane EV conversion. It would scare the heck out of you if I program the controller for a full 450 amp acceleration curve. Zero to 60 in under 4 seconds with a 200# rider. I’ve stripped this bike and will put the motor, etc in a much lighter Kawasaki 600zx chassis..
 

Attachments

Mike Pass

Gold Supporter
#13
How many banzai runs can be done before it needs how long to cool the batteries and motors? What range have you got left after max acceleration runs? How can it go like a rocket AND do X miles? How far will it go with the aircon or heaters and lights on? How long will the batteries last and how much will it cost to replace them? How much lithium and rare earth metals for the motors are there in the world? How many new power stations and new distribution cables for charging points will be needed?

Answers on a post card to the usual address.

Cheers
Rolling coal rules
 
#15
I currently own a Toyota Avalon hybrid and am very satisfied with the vehicle. I live in the Phoenix area and last year drove to Vegas and back on less than a tank of gas. I wanted a reasonably luxurious vehicle that doesn't scream money and gets really good miles/gallon.


Toyota has been in the hybrid business for more than 4 decades and has a proven reliability record. The car drives seamlessly from gas powered to battery power. Most people don't know the car is a hybrid.


Hybrids bridge the gas versus electric issue. Allow you to drive as far as you want and produce a low carbon footprint. And yes I also have solar on my home.


When technology permits battery power and its source of replenishment to be clean and flexible, then we can stop drilling for oil.
 

Randy V

Administrator
#16
Thanks Tom..
I had a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid and traded it in with 10k left on the factory warranty.
It was a fine automobile and delivered over 40mpg pretty consistently and would seat 5 adults.
When warmed up, you could run it up to 40 Mph around town on the battery power alone for a few miles or so. Great in stop and go traffic!
 

Larry L.

Lifetime Premier Supporter
#17
When technology permits battery power and its source of replenishment to be clean and flexible...
'...and doesn't require large subsidies to be competitive price-wise.' ;)

In the meantime, the Mrs. has announced she wants one of those Porsche "Mission e" concepts once they're available...
 
#18
Who here has owned an Electric or Hybrid Vehicie?
What is/was your take on your purchase - Happy / Un-Happy / Meh... ?
Randy I leased a Nissan Leaf for two years. My commute to the office was only 11 miles which it was fine at. In the time I had it I required 2 shop visits forcdefective AC parts but that could have been any car. The biggest challenge I found was range in the winter months which in Atlanta are not that vigorous. If running heat range was in the 50 mile range. Any small family outings like apple picking etc had to be done in our other car. Were it not for the subsidy that made it nearly free to drive for 2 years I think the impractical side would outweigh the benefits for me using my own money.....vs my tax dollars
 

Randy V

Administrator
#19
Very interesting and extremely valuable feedback coming from an automotive enthusiast such as yourself.
I spend my winters in the Phoenix AZ area and see a number of cars like the Leaf, Volt, Bolt and Teslas... Funny thing is that most of them fly past me like I’m chained to the fence. We’re talking 80+ mph...
I wonder what their ranges are ,but will likely not find out...
 
#20
Very interesting and extremely valuable feedback coming from an automotive enthusiast such as yourself.
I spend my winters in the Phoenix AZ area and see a number of cars like the Leaf, Volt, Bolt and Teslas... Funny thing is that most of them fly past me like I’m chained to the fence. We’re talking 80+ mph...
I wonder what their ranges are ,but will likely not find out...
For comparison summer running AC and cruising at 65-70 I could get 90 miles on a charge. It was good at what it was designed for and had a surprising amount of space inside. Being an enthusiast though it didn't move me at all I felt like I was driving an appliance like a toaster
 
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