Electric cars, in a nutshell...

[Ron Earp]

I'm an owner of an electric car (well wife is) and a car enthusiast. On another forum I frequent I went through the purchasing process in dozens of posts with the folks on that forum. I'll report some of those here for those that might be considering an EV.

-----

Just got back from driving the Bolt and Volt, both top of the line models with all options. Color me impressed with both cars.

I found the Bolt fun to drive. It steers well, reasonably sprightly, and has strong acceleration. Lots of tech and well executed. The driver screen provides a lot of information, is configurable, while the center stack screen is intuitive. Apple Car Play works well here as does the phone projection. All good stuff. Climate controls well done. Top down cameras are among the best I’ve seen from Audi, BMW, and Ford. GM has that figured out. Lane keep assist very nice, as is the automatic stopping. ‘

I loved the regen drive mode. It will bring the car to a complete stop and I find it very easy to adapt to one foot driving, sorting out how far away from a stop sign to drop throttle and have the car stop without using the brake thus giving max battery regen. It’s a big go cart and is surprisingly interesting to drive and play the “how well am I doing” game using the energy feedback screen. It’s fun actually.

The Bolt is easy to see out of and the car can fit four easily. It’s tall. And, the Bolt’s interior, well, that’s definitely meh. It wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be but it wasn’t all that great either. The front seats are too flat, rear seats too flat, and there isn’t enough nice inside. On one hand it’s a $41k car so it needs an awesome interior. However GM spent the money on the tech instead which is really cool. But I would rather have a $46k Bolt with an awesome interior. So it goes.

Score for Bolt on 0-10; Ron 7 Julie 5. I liked it and I could have one as my daily for sure. Julie I’m not so sure.

The Volt was a different animal. It feels more car like straightaway as it is lower, although the visibility is less. Interior materials were definitely better. The Volt rear seats are awesome and the front seats are decent. It’s comfortable and more familiar to the driver.

The Volt has good tech too. The driver screen is again well done and shows more than you need to know in a logical fashion. The center stack screen is a bit smaller than the Bolt but it still has all the same features. Climate control again well done and standard good American stuff, not in Klingon like a BMW.

The Volt has lane assist, auto stopping, which the Bolt also had, but the Volt has a radar cruise control which the Bolt does not have as an option. Unfortunately, the Volt doesn’t have the kick ass top down camera stuff. Dammit. Instead it gets an automatic parking mode which works really well and is fast but we’d never use it. We would use the kick ass top down camera stuff though. Thanks GM.

The Volt drives well. I don’t think it was as sharp as the Bolt and it doesn’t accelerate as well due to the higher weight. But it’s more than adequate and in sport mode the extra current to the motor really delivers the power, but the Bolt has that too and wins the drag contests. I didn’t get to rage around in either car but will on my next test drive.

Julie liked the Volt quite a bit and felt it would be good replacement for the Acura. Compared to the Bolt she likes the fact the Volt has an onboard generator that can drive the car at an equivalent 47 MPG. If she needed to make multiple trips to Greensboro for aging parents it’d be no trouble to use the Volt with no charging. But, for 90% of her driving with the car she’d never come off battery power. Everything she does is under 50 miles a day. The Volt also rates your driving style, energy consumption, and allows you to play the “how far car I go game”.

We tried the Volt with the "generator" on and it is difficult to tell when it's running. We forced it on and off twice but it's just about undetectable. As far as driving there isn't any change there since the engine just charges the battery and all duties are still handled by the electric motor.

Both cars have a 100k 8 year warranty on the battery packs so I think that enough for our needs. One nice thing you notice about electrics is you get heat instantly. No waiting for that pesky engine to heat up, 85F air now for those cold natured folks like my wife. Both cars have heated seats (all four seats) and steering wheels since it’s more efficient to heat you that way instead of heating the cabin.

Score for Volt 0-10; Julie 8 Ron 8

Overall I was more impressed than I thought possible. I need to drive the cars more and spend time poking around the interior in more detail but GM is bringing some impressive tech to the market. And you feel like you're getting some cool technology that you can make use of during most of your driving time.

What are we going to do? Not too sure. GM does offer an educator discount for teachers and professors so that’s a nice incentive we can take advantage of, plus the $7500 tax credit. That said I think we could go for a Volt but we’ve got to do more research and testing.

 

[Ron Earp]

The Volt drive went well today with all family members participating. We had a fully charged Volt and managed to get 49.9 miles from it on electric and another 20 miles with the generator running. I think we could have gotten more electric miles but a) wife wouldn't use L mode like she was should b) it was a cool day and we got a -1.0 for that on the "VoltRangeGameRater".

Overall I'd say the car was a winner in day to day life of shopping, grocery store run, errands, and basically getting around. Nothing to dislike really. Sporty it isn't, I mean, it handles averagely enough but that's about all that can be said. Tech is great, Apple Car Play is wonderful although its available on most everything these days.

Julie is going to head over to BMW and drive the 3i tomorrow. She wants to explore the EV car space and I think it is a good idea.

Dr. No | 2016 SARRC North Champion | 2016 NCR ITS Driver of the Year | #38 ITS Mustang| #108 LeChump Mustang | 1985 5L Mustang Notch Build

 

[Ron Earp]

Car buying at Chez Earp is a never ending source of entertainment.

The i3 was driven. It drives well, that is, sharper handling than the Volt or Bolt, and it has a nice steering feel. The interior is nice but quirky. The overall feature set of the car is spotty. It has some features you'd expect and is missing others it should have, prime example of the latter, no backup camera nor top down camera or surround view (we drove a top optioned car - they just don't have one for 2017). The control screens are pretty small compared to the Bolt or Tesla, look like they were added as an afterthought, and, not particularly intuitive. The car doesn't look nearly as horrible in person as it does in pictures but it's still not great.

It's tech is not class leading at all. You get around 100 mile range electric and another 40-50 miles on the two cylinder engine mounted over the rear axle, if you buy that option. You cannot force that engine to turn on for example if you know you're entering a hilly area and don't want to kill the battery. Instead, you have to run the battery to a low state and then the car will decide to run the generator. Many people complain about this situation because the 650cc engine can't produce enough power to motive the car and on even moderate grades the car cannot maintain 60mph if they battery is <10% charge. And, the ICE has only two gallons of gas so you'll be filling up soon if you hit the battery's limits. Compared to the Volt and it's many modes of using the ICE, plus seamless integration, BMW's approach seems antiquated.

My thoughts

Pros
*Drives better than Chevy EVs
*Interior materials slightly better - not hugely better because BMW is trying to use odd/recycled/niche materials in the interior
*For some, got that BMW badge

Cons
*Expensive for feature set
*Tech over hyped for this car
*BMW reliability / repair costs

So, where are we now? Julie is still running the show and I'm merely observing and assisting. She'd driven the Chevys, BMW, a new Acura as a benchmark, and last night she proclaimed she thinks she wants a Bolt or Volt. She finally admitted that despite not trying to the Chevy badge has affected her and that's one of the impediments she has with those two cars. To counteract that she's going to take one of her best friends to go drive the Chevys. This friend is from South Africa and has no or little brand bias and can't identify a Chevy on the road - no kidding; "Oh, the car with the cross or X thing on the front?"

This might end up being a Bolt thread afterall. Either way I'm getting entertained.

 

[Ron Earp]

Bolt acquired. Julie is pretty excited. Looks way better with black badges and front licence plate holder removed. She named it Blue Tardis because it's way bigger on the inside. Accurate.

Why Bolt when things were looking like a Volt?

Subsequent drives two and three of the Bolt changed the initial perceptions considerably. The major points are:

*Julie became realistic about her use for the car and thinks all electric can get it done for her
*She realized the Volt was familiar because it was more sedan like, home. She wanted to step out of that mold a bit.
*Interior not as bad as initial thought. Not Volt nice, but nice enough. Big screen, cool design, and open cockpit help.
*Performance is strong - with 266 lb-ft and 200hp it moves out.
*Handling is good, could use a bit more shock.
*Visibility of a FWD big windshield plus better vis to side and rear allows for situational awareness.
*Usability - the Bolt car format is easy in and out, plus hatchback, its huge on the inside.
*Seats are okay once you adjust them to a decent height and rake. Not Volt or Acura good, but minivanish. I think the internet complaints are from large people.

It's fun to drive. I wheeled around in it last night for around nine miles and never used the brakes, instead relying on regen plus the regen paddle to bring the car to a full stop. Works great.

I'm shopping Level 2 chargers now. Anyone have input on those? Probably going to go with a Clipper Creek 24A unit that plugs in and is portable to fit in the Bolt's underfloor storage space. The 24A charger would charge the Bolt from empty to full in about 11 hours, and, I can wire a 30A 220V at our beach house but don't think the panel can handle 50A.. The Bolt can use much higher current units for more wattage but 40A and 50A service is sometimes had to come by. The higher 50A and 40A would charge it in 8.5 hrs.

 

[Ron Earp]

No incentives in NC for an electric charger. I didn't really expect any in this state but checked anyway. We can use the Bolt in the HOV lane if there were any in central NC. None around that I know of.

OTD on one of these you're looking at around $40k loaded with a premium color and all options using Costco. You could do better on the Volt, no doubt, as we had offers on those about $1.5k less. So cost will be $31,750 if you consider the $7500 tax credit and the $750 Costco gift card that we get for using the Costco buying service. If you're a Costco member I recommend it and your dealer should have a Costco specialist.

Is it worth $31.7k? Too early to tell but as of day two we're pretty happy. We took the car on a family outing to visit UNC-CH with my daughter. Since the last full charge the car has traveled 79 miles and it thinks it can go another 197 with current usage patterns. The weather has been good, between 50 and 70F, and we haven't been using the climate control which does help it out. It's reasonably comfortable for three people and I don't think it'll be a problem for the planned trips to Greensboro and Emerald Isle, 1.5 and 2.5 hrs respectively.

Jeff G drove it and seemed to like it, as have others that have popped over to have a look. It's a bit magnetic due to the difference in driving experience it offers over as gasser.

Julie's pretty excited about the car. She likes to nerd out on the tech and is digging this machine. I know it isn't what most of us here consider a hot ride but she's never been into sports cars and the like. This seems to be her thing.

 

[Ron Earp]

Alrighty, we've made the first long trip with the Bolt. We made a 140 round trip to visit my folks yesterday and all was good. The conditions were very unfavorable to an EV - cold outside temps aren't the best for battery current production, the climate control was used, and we traveled with the cruise set on 71mph. Ouch.

The Bolt's EV data gave us a poor grade:

At 71 mph we were only obtaining around 2.9 mi/KW, which was projected to give us 184 miles of range. Slowing down even 5 mph improved that by a considerable amount, around 210 miles. However, we wanted a worst case situation to make sure that the Bolt would indeed travel to our beach house 155 miles away with heat or AC blasting. Looks like that is no problem so all is good.

How was it on the trip? Fine. It's quiet which is nice for an extended ride. It's stable for extended trips, doesn't feel too small or too light. The seats are nowhere near as bad as reported elsewhere provided you're not fat, pure and simple. If you are big anywhere, and I could stand to lose some pounds, you'll feel it in your back as your back extends to the edges of the seat, and, you'll feel it in your thighs for the same reason. But I was comfortable and so was my wife but she is small. Stereo quality is great and I love the access to PodCasts via CarPlay, just love it. Podcasts are pretty much all I listen to when driving so I was able to catch up on one of each of The Moth, Physics Today, Astronomy Cast, and even a short Escape Pod.

My parents loved the car although. My dad is an EE and has always been interested in cars, electronics, etc. He thought it was really cool and is interested in one of his own. My parents don't travel more than 60 miles from home so they'd be good to go.

Anyhow, we made it back home with 45 miles remaining on the battery. Good stuff.

EDIT- One thing we've learned about this car from using it for two weeks - I do not think there is a car sold that you can enter and get rolling faster than a Bolt. The Bolt seating position is very much like a chair, so you open the door and your ass is already at the right height, just slide in. No key, just push the start button. Instantly ready since there is no engine to crank, place selector in drive and go. It really is quite fast and when you go back to a traditional ICE you start to notice the two seconds to start the engine, the lower position of your coupe, and so on. It's an appliance, but it is a really fucking convenient appliance.

 

[Ron Earp]

Our family requires basically three "long" trips to be possible with the Bolt. Cary to Greensboro, Cary to Burlington, and one way Cary to Emerald Isle. All are possible according to specs but until that trip actually happens there is fear of the unknown. Charge Anxiety I call it, it's a new thing I coined a couple of weeks ago.

Julie recently went to Greenboro to visit her folks and the car performed better than expected on that trip. It's 87 miles one way to where her folks live so we figured that she'd arrive back home with little range to spare. However, she drove at 65mph and it was a warm day, around 65F, so at the end of the trip she still had 45 miles of range showing. Not bad.

Our testing data is sparse but with what feel confident our Bolt can run 200 miles at highway speeds (EVs love around town driving and there the Bolt's range will best 270 miles). Graphically we have one way and two way coverage on the map.

We enjoy the car and it has absolutely become our goto vehicle, even replacing the truck when we need space for a large shopping trip. One aspect of an EV you quickly become accustomed to is the lack of mechanical noises. I love an engine with a great soundtrack, always have, but with an EV the lack of sound is a wonderful thing. Smooooooooth.

 

[Ron Earp]

Relatively minor update, but we made the last long trip we'd speced the Bolt out to make, down to Emerald Isle from Cary NC. The distance for this trip is about 168 miles however we made the trip over the 29-31st of December which were cold days for NC.

Going down it wasn't too cold on average though with temps hovering around 35F to start but was hitting 55F after an hour or so. I was concerned about range since until it you experience something happening and know it'll happen it's best to err on the side of caution, therefore, I turned the climate control off for the first part of the trip until I was certain we'd make it. The wife was not happy but after about 45 miles or so we put the climate control on although it really wasn't needed with the seat heat.

Turns out we had nothing to fear. We ended up somewhere around 4 miles per kW/hr, which would work out to over 240 highway miles. How now brown cow? Eastern NC is flat as a pancake and top speeds on the route were 60mph over 70% of the way, 70mph for about 10%, and 45mph for the rest. The Bolt really likes these speeds.

So we arrived at Beachouse Earp and I got to work installing a 14-50 220V for the charger. I got that done in a couple of hours, nicely done and fully clothed in conduit I might add, and charged the car. The car indicated we had about another 49-67 miles of range in the battery so I was pretty happy. We used the car over the next couple of days carting some friends of ours around to sights and food spots.

Coming back was a different story. Sunday morning we started out at 31F and the temperature was only going to drop from there, ending up at about 27F at our destination. I wanted this trip to be maximal stress so we started out with the climate control on 78F, seat heaters on too, and rolled it maintaining slightly above the posted speed limit. The trip back was a bit longer too due to detours in Kinston for shopping and lunch.

It was close, damn close. About 2 miles from home we got the "Battery Low Propulsion Reduced" message and the battery gauge indicated low - no miles remaining or anything, just low. Total mileage covered was around 184 miles so the temperature and climate control definitely took a hit. But, the range gauge was extremely accurate and linear, no surprises at all. I'm not sure how much further it would have gone, and, the only effects of the reduced propulsion I could see was that I think I on'y had 75kW available at full power when floored. Anyhow, I trust it now and believe it will produce the range it indicates, and, the ranges we're getting out of the car are exceeding the advertised ranges. Good stuff.

We've been driving the Bolt constantly over the holidays and our gas cars have not moved. At all. In fact, having to drive the truck into work this morning was a bummer. You can quickly get used to the Bolt "one foot no brake" driving experience and it's pretty nice. That's one of the few things I've heard Tesla fanbois like better about the Bolt, how much it regenerates off throttle and the car can be brought to a stop with the regen paddle.

Onward and upward.

-----------

Quote Originally Posted by DickR View Post
Ron - Have you calculated the "recharge" cost at Raleigh rates without solar? Also, "energy cost per mile" compared to a "reasonably equivalent" gas only or hybrid car?

Thanks,
Yep, and it's easy to do.

We averaged on the last trip about 4 miles per kW/hr. We're paying 10.2 cents per kW/hr so.........2.25 cents per mile.

What's 2.25 cents per mile in MPG? Well, you have to first decide what sort of car you want to compare it to and the cost of gas. Let's assume we'll compare to something that gets 30 mpg since it is sort of that size of car - it isn't tiny on the inside, and, NC average cost of regular is about $2.30 so......7.6 cents per mile.

So in this simple comparison the gas car costs about 3 times more than the Bolt ion a mileage basis. Factor in maintenance and the EV will become even more attractive.

 

[Ron Earp]

In short, we love the Bolt. It's a fantastic car and yes, you can still be a car enthusiast and have an electric car. In fact, you can develop a new enthusiasm for cars.

 

[Randy V]

Wow Ron! Great report on the Bolt and Volt.
We looked at the Volt when it first came out but the sticker shock and lack of the ability for the ICE to Charge the Batteries made it less exciting to us. Has GM changed that or is the generator still only capable of “getting you there” without having put anything back in the batteries?

 

[Ron Earp]

Wow Ron! Great report on the Bolt and Volt.
We looked at the Volt when it first came out but the sticker shock and lack of the ability for the ICE to Charge the Batteries made it less exciting to us. Has GM changed that or is the generator still only capable of “getting you there” without having put anything back in the batteries?

The second generation Volt is absolutely capable of charging the battery. In fact, there are five distinct modes that the ICE can interface with the car and the car determines how power will flow for best efficiency. There is a really interesting YouTube video that explains it, lots of detail, and there we also learned the Volt actually has two electric motors that are essentially housed together, very neat.

The Volt is an extremely well-engineered piece of kit and I was impressed with it. I would not hesitate to recommend someone purchase one if they were in the market for a mid-size state of the art sedan.

We choose the Bolt which is all electric and I'm happy about that. ICEs are nearing the end of their reign for car propulsion while electric is just beginning. Back to the beginning as it were since electric motors were before ICEs for cars.

 

[Randy V]

Volt - Very interesting!
At this time - We would not be able to go sole EV since we do a bit of interstate travel.
That may change if battery technoloy advances to make charging quicker or battery exchanges at most interstate fuel stations.
I do agree that ICE is enjoying its final days in their current configurations..

 

[Larry L.]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah...but, can an EV even begin to match this in the 'from-three-blocks-away' department?

1968 HEMI Dart Super Stock Cam from hell Camaro ZL1 eater! - YouTube

:devilish:

 

[Ron Earp]

Hey Randy, EV only for folks that do long distance travel won't work well, right now. But will at some point in the future.

We purchased the Bolt with the quick charge feature. What's that? A special SAE plug that some EVs have that allow straight DC charging into the battery. With these you can add around 90 miles in 30 miles (Telsa calls it Supercharging and they use a proprietary plug, not the SAE standard, although adapters exist to convert). These are Level 3 chargers.

Eventually in the future Level 3 DC charging stations will be commonplace. Right now there are a few of them. Far more common, numbering over 20,000 in the US with many more on the way, are Level 2 stations. These are 220V AC stations and the same as what you put in the home if you have an EV.

A Volt would work great for you though. It goes as far as you want it to, just add gas.

 

[Randy V]

What would really help to propel the EV to the next level would be if they had just 1 or 2 standards for batteries and connectors. The supercharging sounds good, but even 30 mins is too long for some people. Perhaps the melding of technologies for range extension using something like a Hydrogen Fuel Cell or....
This subject just “tickles” my mind with all sorts of possibilities...

 

[Ron Earp]

H2 fuel cells will further hamper the acceptance of EV tech. If you need a range extender you need to take advantage of our existing system - gasoline. Adding H2 to EV will just make things more difficult since you'll now need to wait for an H2 distribution system and the EV support system you desire.

What's more interesting to me is increasing the percentage of electric grid power from renewable or low environmental impact sources. Weaning off the fossil fuels and using sources that are sustainable.

The reality is a modern EV can do what more than 85% of the population needs a car for 99% of the time, and, the vast majority of households have two or more cars. I think we'll be heading toward EVs as the primary non-mass transport system and I look forward to it happening.

 

[Randy V]

Oh I’m absolutely on the same page with you on the subject.
I simply threw out the fuel cell notion as yet another possibility... Honda was (no idea on current status) putting a LOT of effort into both the Hydrogen Fuel Cells and CNG.. A small Atkinson Cycle ICE running on CNG could well be a viable range extender.
I would just as soon do something to steer away from petrol as a fuel source since so much complex technology and bandaids are required to clean them up..

 

[Ron Earp]

I would just as soon do something to steer away from petrol as a fuel source since so much complex technology and bandaids are required to clean them up..

Me too.

I realize the Bolt (or any EV really) isn't an enthusiast's cup of tea. They aren't sexy and currently very little motorsport involves them. Electric motorcycles have a race at the Isle of Man, there are some electric drag cars (with astounding performance), and other niche areas but by and large there isn't a lot of electric motorsports. But that is going to change.

Here's the thing about electric cars - driving and using one is a vastly different experience than an ICE. EVs are smooth, quiet, and simply have a lot less stuff going on compared to an ICE. For basic transportation needs they're simply a better solution.

Some will view EVs negatively but I'm going to venture that's because of two things: 1) They haven't spent time driving one and by that I mean having it a few days 2) The negative impression is related to change, that is, they do not want to change from established ways.

I'm still a racer. Still building ICEs and planning another full year of SCCA and LeChump racing. But I also have an EV and I enjoy using it as it is a better solution for 99% of what my wife and I do with a car.

 

[colin artus]

Formula E - Big series with big name drivers and Factory teams, promoted by the FIA.

 

[Doug S.]

Here's the thing about electric cars - driving and using one is a vastly different experience than an ICE. EVs are smooth, quiet, and simply have a lot less stuff going on compared to an ICE.

My experience with EV was quite impressive! A friend had a Mercury hybrid and in order to "activate" the car all that was required was to insert the "ignition key" and turn it "on". At that point all one needed to do was push on the "gas" pedal and the car moved forward...silently! It was an eerie experience. As the ride proceeded I could feel the car autonomously start the engine when more power was needed than could be provided by just the batteries.

Sadly, that friend no longer has that hybrid...and I have no idea why, as I have not had the chance to talk to her about it.

I was quite impressed, though...the car accelerated well and seemed quite capable of dealing with large city (Pueblo, CO) traffic.

I prefer the idea of CNG to gasoline in a hybrid...the technology is already there to establish a network of compressing/delivery stations and IIRC one never need visit an outdoor charging station if one installs a suitcase size compressor on the garage wall...during the night you can simultaneously charge your batteries and pressure-fill your CNG tank!

Cheers!

Doug