Fellow firearm supporters... our are days numberd?

OC_ · Mar 28, 2009

ffice:smarttags" name="country-region"></o:smarttagtype><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com

ffice:smarttags" name="place"></o:smarttagtype><style>  </style> was just watching fox news with Greta Van Susteren who had the head of the BATF on. They were saying that "90-95% of traced weapons smuggled into <st1:country-region><st1

lace>Mexico</st1

lace></st1:country-region> come from the <st1:country-region><st1

lace>USA</st1

lace></st1:country-region>..."

What they didnt say is how many guns are smuggled into <st1:country-region><st1

lace>Mexico</st1

lace></st1:country-region> in total. Or did they say what percentage of those are from <st1:country-region><st1

lace>America</st1

lace></st1:country-region>... or even how many they are tracing! I would guess that smuggled American guns in <st1:country-region><st1

lace>Mexico</st1

lace></st1:country-region> make up less that 1% of all Mexican guns...

They absolutely tried their hardest to make it seem that <st1:country-region><st1

lace>America</st1

lace></st1:country-region> is responsible for 95% of all guns in <st1:country-region><st1

lace>Mexico</st1

lace></st1:country-region>. They even had a headline at the bottom of the screen saying that very thing!

If the Obama administration let the head of the BATF on Fox news, fox news has to be in cahoots with the obama administration!

Fatal Attraction · Mar 28, 2009

No, our days are not numbered.

Before you begin building your very own armored fortress and stockpiling weapons and ammo, you might want to read this statement made to Congress by William Hoover, Deputy Director of the BATF since 2007 (a BUSH appointee). Sounds like he said the exact same thing before Congress (under oath, by the way) that was reported on Fox News.

http://www.atf.gov/press/speech/2009/031709ad-hoover-doj-testimony.pdf

Here's an excerpt to help ease your fears.

"It is an undisputable fact that the weapons and firearms used to fuel the drug-related violence in Mexico can be traced back to guns procured legally or illegally here."

It's not part of any gun grabbing conspiracy, as many people would like you to believe.

BTW, I am a staunch gun rights supporter, but I refuse to believe anyone who allows FACTS get in the way of their agenda.

But, on a more positive note, all the paranoid folks who are buying every gun and all the ammo that they can afford, certainly have helped to stimulate the economy.

jcdean · Mar 28, 2009

The part that is confusing me is why would a savy drug czar buy $800.00 semi-auto AR-15's from the US when they can get $100.00 full auto (select fire anyway) from Cuba, Venezuela, Columbia, et al all day long?

When Mexico releases the serial numbers (which they are refusing to do as of 3/27/09) then we will be able to see the true origins of these weapons.

Big-Foot · Mar 28, 2009

jcdean said:
The part that is confusing me is why would a savy drug czar buy $800.00 semi-auto AR-15's from the US when they can get $100.00 full auto (select fire anyway) from Cuba, Venezuela, Columbia, et al all day long?

Why? In Drug-money speak the price differential between $100 and $800 is so inconsequential that it doesn't matter - plus - the parts to make them fully automatic are readily available from other sources outside the US with no penalty for their purchase - just their installation (from what I've read).

Now why go through the trouble?

It could be that the penalty for getting caught buying these weapons from Cuba, Venezuela, Columbia and other central to south american sources is typically death.
There is no penalty for buying them here in the US.

Bottom line for most operation rings (again from what I've read) - Do not draw any more attention to yourself or risk exposure than what is absolutely necessary. This way the only exposure or risks that they need to mitigate are those of their illicit drug operations.

Now - not being a thief or drug lord but being very well in tune with risk mitigation on a number of fronts - this makes sense...

Cliffbeer2 · Mar 28, 2009

The key factual data point in the BATF statement is this: "90-95% of traced weapons"

There are far more illegal guns and ammo and weapons coming from eastern european sources than the US. The BATF, and other US authorities, can do some tracing of weapons originally registered and purchased in the US, hence, what is caught and is traceable not surprisingly is traceable to the US! The BATF can't trace weapons produced and sold through eastern european sources, and there are literally container loads of weapons coming out of eastern europe on a daily and weekly basis. Heck, we (the US gov't) is even buying these contraband weapons and ammo (unknowingly) through middle men to supply to combat operations all over the world - Afghanistan and Iraq are prime examples.

Eastern europe still has warehouses full of 40-year old ammo and weapons being sold by arms dealers, many of whom are government officials charged with "safeguarding" the stock piles. They don't care who's buying, just how much they'll pay. It's human behaviour at its worst.

OC_ · Mar 28, 2009

Big-Foot said:
Why? In Drug-money speak the price differential between $100 and $800 is so inconsequential that it doesn't matter - plus - the parts to make them fully automatic are readily available from other sources outside the US with no penalty for their purchase - just their installation (from what I've read).

Randy, are you aware that its not just a simple swap of parts to convert a gun into full-auto? Any gun thats easily converted to full-auto was already banned here in the states. This was done with a bill back in '82 which banned a certain firearm operation/action.
Don't believe everything you read, the guns sold in the states cannot easily be converted to machine guns. Even the AK-47's...

OC_ · Mar 28, 2009

What upset me most about the original fox broadcast is how purposely misleading the information was. They made it seem that WE are solely <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CJohn%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>  </style> <o

></o

> responsible for arming Mexican drug cartels. This is simply not true! I think what Cliff says strikes the issue right on the head.
Also, i dont think the cartels are getting their anti-tank rockets, heavy machineguns and grenades from here!

chuck 1 · Mar 28, 2009

the US federal government is the second or third largest arms dealer in the world. We provide millions of arms to regimes that ultimatly turn them on us. Most of the Mexican army weapons are produced in the US and we all know that many of those end up in the wrong hands through corruption. this is another way to "not let a good crisis go to waste" and try to deflect blame so as to get approval from the proletariot to enact new gun legislation.

Big-Foot · Mar 29, 2009

OC_ said:
Randy, are you aware that its not just a simple swap of parts to convert a gun into full-auto? Any gun thats easily converted to full-auto was already banned here in the states. This was done with a bill back in '82 which banned a certain firearm operation/action.
Don't believe everything you read, the guns sold in the states cannot easily be converted to machine guns. Even the AK-47's...

John,

My point was made in the post you quoted -
Of course you may have to purchase the entire action of the gun.
The last I was aware - These parts are available outside of the United States.

Admittedly -
I've not kept fully up to date with them...
The last fully automatic weapon I held in my hands was made by Colt and the year was 1971. I hope I don't ever have to pick one up to defend my country again but would if called to duty.

Conquest351 · Mar 29, 2009

As for making semi auto weapons into full auto weapons, on my H&K G3 assault rifle, it's a simple trigger group swap. It's 2 push pins to do the swap.

Now, I'm a huge gun supporter, and I think that the Mexican problem has been a long time coming. I believe that we need to institute the program which was rumored back in the day where ranchers were not only allowed, but encouraged to fire upon trespassing illegals who wondered onto their ranch. I know what people are going to say, "That's inhumane! You'll be shooting people looking for work and opportunity!" Well guess what, if the word starts getting around that ranchers are shooting trespassers who are wondering onto their ranch for fear of their LIVES from these drug running thugs, then they'll find alternate routes to get into the US for "work" or "opportunity".

I've been down to South Texas and seen the destruction and vandalism these people do on their way to "work" and "opportunity". They will destroy fences, break into homes, steal anything they can get their hands on, and generally just destroy anything in their path. They do not care. If I was looking for work or opportunity in a country so much better than mine, I'd show some f'in respect. There is no respect shown.

Now, I will say I have met and worked with some people who crossed the boarder illegally to get work. They are honest and good people who are truely here for that purpose. These people also applied for work visas and eventually citizenship. I have no idea how they got visas while being here illegally, but they did. (could be fake too) Anyway, you will see those people generally coming across alone or in about 2-3 person groups. If they're in large groups (10 or more), then they are looking for trouble and that's it.

It is war out there and in that area, make no mistake. People are selling property down there like crazy and it's getting to where people will not buy it either. I know that if I were to go down and list something in any of the trouble areas, I will drive and take my weapons with me rather than fly.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Take them for what they're worth, which isn't much really.

Laters,

Brian

OC_ · Apr 2, 2009

Fox news has reported that this '90-95% of traced guns' is only 6000 guns out of the 30,000 captured. The rest are coming from over seas and are 'untraceable'... They probably would be traceable if the Mexican government cooperated...

HeathGT350 · Apr 2, 2009

Fox news is shit, you could probably just draw words out of a hat and they would be more accurate and make more sense than the biased crap on fox.

A.J. · Apr 2, 2009

Simple solution:before you hire - Muéstreme su tarjeta verde, el amigo.

OC_ · Apr 2, 2009

HeathGT350 said:
Fox news is shit, you could probably just draw words out of a hat and they would be more accurate and make more sense than the biased crap on fox.

What do you suggest instead? MSNBC? I'm sure thats spin free.

Fellow firearm supporters... our are days numberd?

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