Ford Motor Sport water pump failure

[Randy]

I installed the Ford short pump when I put my car together last year. With 1500 miles on the car (a lot of track time) the impeller broke off the hub and was laying in the bottom of pump. This event happened at my last track event at Thunder Hill. I was meatballed off the track because the car was steaming. The pump looked fine externaly but I knew water was not circulating. When I removed pump the broken impeller was apparent. Ford Motor Sports replaced the pump at no charge.
I was talking with Larry Stock of Pantara Parts Connection and he says my pump makes the FOURTH :sad: impeller failure he has heard about. So if you are having some funny cooling issues consider this:stunned:
The impeller is thin, about .075 in. The other impellers I measured are .095 in. So heads up guys.
Randy

 

[Howard Jones]

I have a Edelbrock Victor Series Aluminum pump on mine. Almost 10K miles total and about 1500 track miles so far without any issues.

Really nice car by the way. Tough way to figure out the overheat issue but at least you know what it is now. Hope to see you at the track again.

 

[Mike Drew]

A Pantera buddy of mine (and Larry's) has had two or three Ford Motorsports impellers break off on his 408 Windsor stroker. Dunno why he hasn't switched to an Edelbrock water pump yet? :stunned:

 

[fostereast]

Question

How do the v8 aluminum heads and blocks take to overheating? When I was a kid, it never seemed to be a problem if one of our chevy 350 trucks overheated (all cast iron) but when my wifes mazda overheated in the late 80's it was a significant repair bill (more than my first three used cars)

 

[John P]

The Edelbrock Vic Jr is the same casting as the Ford Motorsport casting, except for the logo. The internals may be different, but the casting is the same.

 

[Randy]

I think I may not have hurt the motor with the over heat! Running great,but at start up for first 10min of running I see a little bit of milky white stuff on dip stick, but once hot oil looks perfect. I think its the cooler wheather creating some condensation .
The impeller while failing chewed up the aluminum housing and may be acting like Alumaseal, I am watching it carefullyl
Randy

 

[Maurice Butler]

I think I may not have hurt the motor with the over heat! Running great,but at start up for first 10min of running I see a little bit of milky white stuff on dip stick, but once hot oil looks perfect. I think its the cooler wheather creating some condensation .
The impeller while failing chewed up the aluminum housing and may be acting like Alumaseal, I am watching it carefullyl
Randy

do a compression test when dead cold
check there is no air bubble under the radator cap before you start the engine
a pressure test of the cooling system,
watch the water level in the overflow like a hawk.

White milk stuff is water in the oil. You never get enough condensation to give the oil a white milk look.

change the oil and keep a close eye on the colour on the dip stick

best of luck

 

[Murray]

Hmmmm, sounds like water is getting in there somewhere. Had the same thing happen on a foreign sports jobbie I used to own. Ended up being the headgasket which allowed water in after the engine overheated due to water pump failure. Warped the alloy head!

Buggar!

 

[Mike Drew]

The Edelbrock Vic Jr is the same casting as the Ford Motorsport casting, except for the logo. The internals may be different, but the casting is the same.

I know Edelbrock casts all their own stuff (I've toured the factory), so the implication would be that Ford is buying water pump castings from Edelbrock, then fitting their own defective impellers?

The problems with the Ford pumps are limited to the impellers, which break, and thus stop pumping. :furious:

 

[Jac Mac]

Re: Question

How do the v8 aluminum heads and blocks take to overheating? When I was a kid, it never seemed to be a problem if one of our chevy 350 trucks overheated (all cast iron) but when my wifes mazda overheated in the late 80's it was a significant repair bill (more than my first three used cars)

Depends on how hot it gets. In most cases with a minor overheat eg: like Randys situation or where a hose lets go, but the car is stopped straight away, the first action that should be taken is to retorque the cylinder head bolts when the engine has cooled down & is COLD. Resist the temptation to run the motor at all when something like this happens until you have done so.

WHY???-- When alloy reachs temps higher than normal operating parameters it expands even further than normal- in doing so it will either stretch the head bolts past their elastic limit or pull the head bolts/washers further into the alloy. In either scenario the head bolt preload is lost or reduced to the point that the head gasket will fail shortly afterwards if they are not retorqued or replaced in some cases. If your lucky you will get away with doing only this, but if the heat has been high enough to affect the alloys heat treat/hardness then eventually the gasket will move against the alloy and fail anyway- then you will be able to start another never ending thread as to why it happened

 

[Cliff Beer]

If the engine got really, really hot then it might make sense to go ahead and take off the heads, clean the block mating surface, install new gasket, and check the head surface for true. You may find the heads are very slightly warped - a very light skimming on the mill to take off the high spot(s) may also be appropriate and keep everything flat and true when she goes back together...

 

[Ian Anderson]

How hot is acceptable and how hot is too hot?

Reason I ask is I have a Rover Alloy lump and have heard this about he warping etc but nobody can ever seem to give a definative answer.

I had it blow of stem - presumed to be a bubble of air hot sopt and saw about 100 -105 degrees for 15 secs till I could park. Does not seem to have done damage but then I've only done 3000 miles!

Since then the water pump seal also gave way - possibly due to sitting for 15 years after assembly!


Ian

 

[John P]

Here's the two pumps side by side, Edelbrock on the right. These are both reverse rotation pumps. The casting are identical, except for the logos. The shaft size is the same and the impellers are identical. Even the rear cover plates are interchangeable. If the Motorsport one broke, it's probably just bad luck.

 

[Randy]

Jac-mac. I was thinking about a retorque. Didn't know if it was a good idea, thanks.
When I came off the track I had steam out the overfow for 5min.
When I say a little milky stuff I meam about 1/4 in. of film on top of normal level on dip stick,that only appears during first 10 min. of running. Once hot oil looks great!and looks great untill next cold start. I think there is a test for exhaust gas in the coolant, That may be a easy thing to check.
Cliff ,I agree with you I will most likely pull the heads, I mean why not it winter and track days and a ways off!
John, My pump looked a little different on the outside ,and my impeller is very different..sorry I don't know how to post pictures.
Randy

 

[Rick]

Is the impellor made of stamped metal or is it cast? It sounds like the press fit is not sufficient.

I have had incident with my V6 2.5 4 Cam Ford that the OEM waterpump impellor was plastic (or composite??) Well known for splitting at the hub and spinning on the shaft at higher RPMs, but having enough friction on the shaft to actually pump water at idle or lower RPM's.

 

[Al Jones]

Water may be vaporizing as oil gets hot and seems to 'disappear'.If this happens every time it cools down, you need to check a few things before it gets expensive.As mentioned,compression test cold/hot.cooling system pressure test and DUMP that oil.Best thing,to be sure,is to pull the heads and check for warpage.Don't forget to flush cooling system as well before running it again. A.J.

 

[Howard Jones]

If you do nothing else, stop running the engine until you KNOW that you don't have a cracked block or head, blown head gasket or the way that the water is getting into the oil.

It takes just 1 or 2% dilution of the oil with water to really start to dammage things. Main and rod bearings are really in danger followed by the cam and valve train parts. At this point you may be only looking at a gasket kit and a weekend tear down of the heads. If you wipe a main bearing then....well you get the idea.

I have run my car for 1000o miles and I have never had ANY water appear in the oil due to condensation. I have had the exact same symptom in other engines and each time it was a head gasket.