Good Moaning Everyone. Comments Appreciated...

[Mark]

You little trouble monkey Bob!

I have opinions on things and am prepared to air them publically. I do not however, have any belief that my opinions are right! I merely comment upon what I see, with absolutely zero expectaion taht, or care, that anyone agrees.

As for the GT40, that's an easy one. It is the bastard child of a British Mother, paid for for and sired by an American. For all I know, so am I!

Now, why not ask something more complex? I am bound to have an answer, just not necessarily, the answer anyone else wants to hear...............

 

[Mark]

Another easy question. Built by Americans, commissioned by the British and made truly effective after the installation of a Rolls Royce engine.

A very effective demonstration of a unique partnership between those two great nations, the greatness of which, I played no part whatsoever!

 

[Jim Craik]

Another easy question. Built by Americans, comissioned by the British and made truly effective after the installation of a Rolls Royce engine.

The GT40.......Built by British, commissioned by the Americans used a American engine.

The P-51........Built by the Americans, commissioned by the British used a British engine.

If the GT40 is American then the P-51 Mustang is British.

 

[Mark]

And you and I fight so often, why?

 

[Allan Feldman]

Wrong when the British commissioned the Apache/Mustang it had a Allison engine so let me get it right british specs american built american engine. When and I forgot his name had an idea that a Merlin engine mustang would be the bees knees The aircraft was then a british spec american built brit engined american built under license by Packard.
As for the all Amercian MKIV what is link with Lola?
Regards Allan

 

[Mark]

All that you can do is wish them well
Thank your stars you’re not that way
Turn your back and walk away
Don’t even pause and ask them why
Turn around and say goodbye

 

[Jim Craik]

Wrong when the British commissioned the Apache/Mustang it had a Allison engine so let me get it right british specs american built american engine. When and I forgot his name had an idea that a Merlin engine mustang would be the bees knees The aircraft was then a british spec american built brit engined american built under license by Packard.
As for the all Amercian MKIV what is link with Lola?
Regards Allan

Well hello Allan.

Technically of course you are right, the first Mustangs were designed for and had Allison V-12s. That was the motor that the British specified.

But that was not an aircraft that anyone would go out of their way to claim its parantage. Its not an aircraft that we would be talking about now.

The model of Mustang that made them legandary was the P-51B through D. As I'm sure you know, they had Merlins (mostly Packard built).

And for your question: "As for the all Amercian MKIV what is link with Lola?"

What did they learn from Lola?

They learned how build a race car.

Let me ask you this, if the Ford engineers could build a race car like the MKIV on their own, why did they even mess with Lola to begin with?

Thinking back to the Ford "race" style show cars built just before their Lola connection, I think they learned quite a bit. Its a big jump from this to the MKIV.

 

[Mark]

What? Are we on the verge of recognising that through cooperation, great things are achieved. Lastingly great things? Surely not??

I thought this thread turned into a seperatist, divisive rant, over who did what for whom, and who should be grateful for the efforts of others???

Epic drift by the way! Sorry Keith! Not!

 

[Keith]

Ooh Oooh can I play?

I don't Google so do not shoot me (again).

I believe the Mustang (P51) was actually built in USA from a set of parameters, (or design concepts) laid down by the RAF who wanted a long range fighter to protect their bombing fleet.

First engine was a Packard? Not sure but the 2nd was the iconic Merlin and that's where it got it's range and performance from.

The final aircraft design was American (Cadillac) :blank:

The 'smiley' is my deadpan jokey face which I use when I mess around with words, meanings and definitions for amusement purposes.

Just to be clear.

That is all.

EDIT: Bugger - didn't see the other replies. Oh well...

 

[Keith]

What? Are we on the verge of recognising that through cooperation, great things are achieved. Lastingly great things? Surely not??

I thought this thread turned into a seperatist, divisive rant, over who did what for whom, and who should be grateful for the efforts of others???

Epic drift by the way! Sorry Keith! Not!

I am the OP so drift away my friends. The challenge is to go seamlessly full circle without a break.

 

[Jim Craik]

Ooh Oooh can I play?

I don't Google so do not shoot me (again).

I believe the Mustang (P51) was actually built in USA from a set of parameters, (or design concepts) laid down by the RAF who wanted a long range fighter to protect their bombing fleet.

First engine was a Packard? Not sure but the 2nd was the iconic Merlin and that's where it got it's range and performance from.

The final aircraft design was American (Cadillac) :blank:

The 'smiley' is my deadpan jokey face which I use when I mess around with words, meanings and definitions for amusement purposes.

Just to be clear.

That is all.

EDIT: Bugger - didn't see the other replies. Oh well...

Keith, I also did not Google.

You are close, but as I recall, the British came to North American Aviation and asked then to build Curtiss P-40s. NA was run by a Mr Schmit (or something like that), he said why have us build an obsolete aircraft, we can build a better one...........they had been working on general concepts for a fighter.

They worked out a deal, the Brits specified the Engine and the guns. the rest was NA Aviation. They promised to finish the prototype in something like 100 days. They were only a few days over.

As for engines, the first few hundred had Allison V-12s, then came some RR Merlin prototypes. The next 15,000 or so had Packard built Merlins, built under licence in the US.

As for range, yes the Merlin was reasonabley fuel efficient, but the Mustangs range came mostly from a low drag airframe, including an early laminar flow wing and a cleverly designed radiator that actually could provide a little thrust. That along with massave fuel tanks and later large cardboard/epoxy drop tanks.

 

[Keith]

Interesting, very interesting.

Also (not Googling) can you remember the colour of Schmidts shoes he was wearing when he did the deal?

For the life of me.... I just cannot recall.......no, it's gone.

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

They were brown, or maybe burgundy or then again they could have been black.
I am sure they were designed in England and cobbled in the US under licence.
American leather, Bison I think.

 

[Keith]

They were brown, or maybe burgundy or then again they could have been black.
I am sure they were designed in England and cobbled in the US under licence.
American leather, Bison I think.

Good Lord Pete! What a memory - do you know I think you're right.

Thanks for that.. for some strange reason I believed an Italian Design Studio was also involved in their Anglo/American heritage.. Only because I do recall (without Googling of course) that one of the prototypes had had the toes put on back to front and sadly resulted in Italy losing the war when they tried to advance. :blank:

 

[Robert May Eng.]

He was stood in Russian socks though:shocked:

Bob

 

[Mark]

What i think is most important to clarify, is if the shoes of Anglo/American/Italian design collaboration, were bought with the expectation of complete user comfort, when worn specifically in conjunction with Russian made socks?

Worthy of further investigation would be, if both socks and shoes were purchased on the same day, from a highstreet retail outlet, could they have been transported by the purchaser in a bag like this, without inciting racial hatred, national panic or the possible shooting of the shopper/aircraft designer, by Law Enforcement Officers?

 

[Jac Mac]

Getting back to the Merlin-Packard thing for a minute, When RR gave the drawings/specifications of the Merlin to Packard the Packard engineers reported back to RR that they could not build the engines to the specifications provided---RR engineers replied somewhat tongue in cheek that perhaps the specifications were too exact or words to that effect for the Packard facility to work with, they RR were somewhat floored when the reply came back that the situation was just the reverse, the tolerances were not accurate enough!!
RR apparently used a system where for instance the crankshaft would be machined then bearings of suitable size installed to match both the crankshaft diameter & the bore of the housing it was being fitted to, Packhard in turn built the shafts all to the same dia so that there any crank could be fitted to any block or con rod with a single bearing size.
Some manufacturers ( Honda for one) use the RR method today, where crank journal sizes vary along any shaft along with differences in say main bearing & conrod tunnel sizes, shafts/blocks/rods are numbered & stamped and you get your new rods, crank/block and (pick) your bearing inserts accordingly...works great for them (Honda) at the factory, but is a pain if you need a new crank for your own car as you have to first obtain your new crank or block or rod's first before you can order your bearing inserts for the new combination.
So for servicability in the field for example if you were better off with a packard as parts were easier to have on hand.

 

[Robert May Eng.]

What i think is most important to clarify, is if the shoes of Anglo/American/Italian design collaboration, were bought with the expectation of complete user comfort, when worn specifically in conjunction with Russian made socks?

Worthy of further investigation would be, if both socks and shoes were purchased on the same day, from a highstreet retail outlet, could they have been transported by the purchaser in a bag like this, without inciting racial hatred, national panic or the possible shooting of the shopper/aircraft designer, by Law Enforcement Officers?

Indeed it may get people Russian about in a panic.

Bob

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

Jac Mack, I think you are the only sane person in this thread, however, do know the shoe size of the Packard chap who told Rolls their tolerances were not tolerant enough ? I suspect not. However he was probably one of those most subversive of immigrants a Welsh African American of Scots descent who played the bagpipes badly and could not sing named Bruce... Or was that George Alexander?:worried:

 

[Marcus]

Gee, Hardup, I was just stating a very well documented fact of urban life.

Maybe I just come of as harsh because of my German heritage;

How German Sounds Compared To Other Languages - YouTube

Bob... brillant vid, really made me laugh!

Americans, however, seem to equally take the piss out of Germans and Brits:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4At-YkjedgA]CC-Stand-Up Chris D'Elia about Germans - YouTube[/ame]

Greetings from a Prussian,

Marcus