Healthcare

[Keith]

I find it quite amazing that the guys here who are probably upper middle class and above, for the most part have a reasonable working knowledge of the proposed healthbill. I find it more amazing that the congress, senate and president probably don't have as good an idea of what the bill is about as we do! I've heard questions at town hall meetings and the bumbling responses by politicians and I find that appalling, that's their job!

Upper middle what? What the heck is that? Thought y'all belonged to a meritocratic society and dumped all that class shite.. :huh:

And I always believed if there was a class structure in the USA it was simply delineated by piles of greenbacks and that anybody could be President (you got that bit right). Was the revolution in vain?

You wanna come back in? :laugh:

 

[domtoni]

Al,

Look at Sen. Durbin in the WTTW broadcast. Makes one wonder why he is the No. 2 guy in the Senate.

Catch this about Avatin, a $50,000 drug to stop colon cancer, and said in the U.S. to be highly effective. Not sure where I saw this but it was someone hitting on the insurance companies about not paying for drugs. From a local medical doctor friend:

Avastin is licensed for use in the UK but it is not available on the NHS.


The National Institute for Clinical Effectiveness (NICE) has looked at it and although there are some marginal benefits in terms of improved prognosis, they are not considered great enough to justify the enormous cost of the drug which could be better spent on treating a larger number of other cancer patients with different drugs.


The evidence would not support your comment that "it is very effective at cutting colon cancer". It is only licensed for the treatment of advanced (metastatic) cancer which has a poor prognosis and the effect is marginal at best.


Ian

On 15 Sep 2009, at 10:25, [email protected] wrote:

Ian,

This is a Genentech developed drug and is said to cost $50,000 per annum but is very effective in cutting colen cancer. Is this available under the NHS?

Avastin for Metastatic Colorectal Cancer Treatment and Advanced Lung Cancer Treatment - Avastin=

Best
Dom

​

 

[Ian K]

I find it quite amazing that the guys here who are probably upper middle class and above, for the most part have a reasonable working knowledge of the proposed healthbill. I find it more amazing that the congress, senate and president probably don't have as good an idea of what the bill is about as we do! I've heard questions at town hall meetings and the bumbling responses by politicians and I find that appalling, that's their job!

I think it is entirely possible that they know exactly what the bill is about, especially
since they are the ones writing it, and that much of the vitriol and misinformation regarding
it that is being strewn about is a good indication that those responsible for said tirades
may be the ones who do not have as good a grasp on the what the bill is about as they
think they do.

Ian

 

[domtoni]

Ian,

Well said. Listen to Sen. Durbin on the WTTW web broadcast of the Chicago show.

He sounds like he is reading off the Obama script rather than listening to the people.

 

[Chris P.]

Bill - you read my post wrong. I said I would prefer to keep it out of government's hands and fix the real issue of increasing health costs.

 

[Bill Musarra]

Recently the president said he is willing to cut about $100Million out of the budget. That sounds like a lot of money. I mean, a 100Million here, 100Million there. Pretty soon we are talking about real money. All kidding aside, it is hard to grasp how much $100 Million is. here is a video that explains it pretty good:

Visualizing Obama's budget cuts. [VIDEO]

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Recently the president said he is willing to cut about $100Million out of the budget. That sounds like a lot of money. I mean, a 100Million here, 100Million there. Pretty soon we are talking about real money. All kidding aside, it is hard to grasp how much $100 Million is. here is a video that explains it pretty good:

Visualizing Obama's budget cuts. [VIDEO]

That puts it into perspective very nicely! Your basic pisshole in the snow!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I think it is entirely possible that they know exactly what the bill is about, especially
since they are the ones writing it, and that much of the vitriol and misinformation regarding
it that is being strewn about is a good indication that those responsible for said tirades
may be the ones who do not have as good a grasp on the what the bill is about as they
think they do.

Ian

I think SOME of them know what the bill is about, I also think judging from their answers when questioned, some of them don't have a clue or have very poor retention skills!

 

[domtoni]

Catch this interview with Kucinich:

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/335622/Kucinich-Take-Insurance-Industry-Profits-to-Pay-for-Universal-Health-Care?tickers=AET,CI,WLP,UNH,^HCX,^DJI,^GSPC&sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=

Dream on son !!!

 

[Ian K]

I think SOME of them know what the bill is about, I also think judging from their answers when questioned, some of them don't have a clue or have very poor retention skills!

Based upon some of questions asked and vitriol spewed, I think the lack of clueness is
pretty universal.

Ian

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Based upon some of questions asked and vitriol spewed, I think the lack of clueness is
pretty universal.

Ian

Yeah, But the politicians are paid to have a clue! I think for the most part the people are trying to voice their opposition, no hatred involved. It's portrayed as either hate or racism, and both are BS! The dems play the race card every time they are in trouble!

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Speaking of the race card, Jimmy Carter is a senile old fool, he ought to stick to building houses! Obama preached about white and black unity, he and the dems have set it back 30 years! If you don't like the bills that are put forward you are a racist, how ridiculous is that?

 

[craig]

Speaking of the race card, Jimmy Carter is a senile old fool, he ought to stick to building houses! Obama preached about white and black unity, he and the dems have set it back 30 years! If you don't like the bills that are put forward you are a racist, how ridiculous is that?

I love to hear old jimmy speak up....do you guys remember the long lines to purchase gas.. I fricking respect him sooo much..
Jimmy has already marked his name in the history books as one of the worst presidents in American history... But I do believe Obama will take his crown away...

Only time will tell..

Give it a few more weeks....:shifty:

 

[domtoni]

BHO says Sunday on 5 news shows that opposition against his health care bill is not racist.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

BHO says Sunday on 5 news shows that opposition against his health care bill is not racist.

Of course he does, but the rest of the party and senile Jimmy suggests that it is!

 

[Ian K]

Yeah, But the politicians are paid to have a clue! I think for the most part the people are trying to voice their opposition, no hatred involved. It's portrayed as either hate or racism, and both are BS! The dems play the race card every time they are in trouble!

No hatred? I agree that the racism slant is a stretch (but is by no means non existent),
but hatred abounds. Comparing Obama to Hitler? If people are ignorant enough to
believe that some socialist concepts entering our government (of which there already
are some), that it will inevitably lead to a fascist takeover, there is some outright
hatred clouding that belief enough to ignore how the US government was designed.

Ian

 

[domtoni]

Take a look at this one:

Robert Powell Center for Medical Ethics

 

[domtoni]

FYI, here is a copy of email correspondence I had with a variety of different friends regarding medication costs in the US and the UK. I took out the email address etc.

Hate to say it Walt, but you pay less for your medication than I do with the NHS. I take three BP medications:
Simvastatin, Cardura (Pfizer), and Lisinopril.

I pay for a 56 day supply £7.25 per perscription, or read £21,75 for all three. As I am on the dole, I pay nothing (one of the only things I get free here).

The cost per tablet is: £0.13 each or $0.21 each.

According to Leslie's list:
Lisinopril - $0.11
Simvastatin - $0.17
Cardura (Pfizer) - $0.11

The above are Walmart prices. I wish I could buy my medication at your K Mart prices. It seems that your medication prices are very much dependent on convenience.

Like I said, I wish we could buy for the free market prices in the USA. Boy, those guys on the government NHS are a bunch of capitalist thieves !!!

One thing to note: The doctors here are targeted to get people off brand name drugs and onto generics as fast as possible. As I understand, they first prescribe generics and if they don't work, then they go to brand name drugs.

Best
Dom



Sent: Sat, Sep 19, 2009 10:54 pm
Subject: Re: Fwd: this time with the link attached!

<style type="text/css"> #AOLMsgPart_2_7443e0cc-5965-45d7-a9f9-76c7728995f3 #AOLMsgPart_2_338a43b3-5d9f-4095-82b7-2898a0792a1e DIV {margin:0px;} </style> My mother took tamoxifen in the eighties and nineties after her masectomy, when there was no generic available. I personally have no idea as to cost today.
However here is the link to "Leslie's List" page, a website run by an internal medicine doctor in the Chicago area, for the drug. This page shows the cost for a generic option, which is considerably less than what my mother paid 10 - 20 years ago. What you'll notice though is the wide range of costs, from 27 cents per tablet to $2.23 per tablet (from the nation's largest drug retailer), depen ding on the provider. These prices are for those without health insurance that has a prescription drug benefit.

http://www.leslieslist.org/medication.php?name=Tamoxifen&x=fc6d47d4adbbc17ec1709a4d7f7ad960


This is one of the "catches" of Big Pharma though. The blood pressure medicine my doctor prescribed for me was in capsule form. A year before the patent was due to expire, allowing generic competition; the manufacturer came out with a new "formulary". The new formulary was simply a tablet rather than a capsule, but essentially the same chemical composition. This reset the patent rights and at this point, more that 6 years after the new “formulary” a generic version is still not available for the drug.


************************************
Too Big To Fail = Too Big To Exist
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How much do American women pay for this drug?

Here is the price in the UK (Thanks Ian).

Best
Dom


Walt, Anyone,


£1.57 per month on NHS

In a message dated 10/09/2009 13:57:42 Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:

Yes, tamoxifen is a commonly used anti-breast-cancer drug. Cheap as chips here in the UK.

Ian
​

​

Dom Thanks Ian.


=

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

No hatred? I agree that the racism slant is a stretch (but is by no means non existent),
but hatred abounds. Comparing Obama to Hitler? If people are ignorant enough to
believe that some socialist concepts entering our government (of which there already
are some), that it will inevitably lead to a fascist takeover, there is some outright
hatred clouding that belief enough to ignore how the US government was designed.

Ian

Some radicals probably do hate Obama, as did some who hated Bush or any of the other presidents. I just don't go along with the Dems and Jimmy Carter saying that the people who oppose healthcare or other bills are racist. I find that rude, ignorant, and self serving, having nothing to do with the issue, but to cloud the intent of the issue.

 

[tom pritchett]

Anytime someone is losing an argument, they get personal. What is more personal than the color of someone's skin? The way they smell? The race card is being played because it is devisive and draws attention from the losing debate on healthcare